So today I'll tackle the task of making the outdoors just a little more approachable by bringing you a tutorial of how to poop in the woods.
METHOD 1: THE OUTHOUSE
Many backcountry campsites have outhouses. While these facilities are usually not pleasant, they are the best place for both your number 1's and number 2's. They are built to contain the refuse and therefore protect the surrounding environment (especially bodies of water) from pollution. Other than being a great leave no trace option, they also usually provide privacy and sometimes even toilet paper. The main drawback is the gnarly smell and dirty interior (although I'll admit I've used some fabulous outhouses).
My outhouse tip is to streamline the process of getting in and out - prep your toilet paper (TP) in advance (no fumbling for me!) and don't bother closing the door. While it's not exactly awesome etiquette to do your business with the door open, the outhouse is not the most popular hangout and I haven't been caught yet.
Make sure to use an outhouse whenever it's available.
METHOD 2: BURIAL
Of course, outhouses are not always available. And occasionally they are so incredibly disgusting that they cannot be used. I've only come across an unusable outhouse once but - ugh, I don't even want to think about it.
When traveling in a wooded area burial is a common and effective method of poop management. While there is some debate on the topic, it is fairly accepted that burying your poop promotes quick composting, prevents the spread of disease, and preserves the illusion that others aren't pooping all over the forest. While it is considered acceptable by leave no trace campers, it isn't as good as using an outhouse or packing out your waste (for serious. We'll talk about that later).
A) Choose a Location
Select a site that is 200 feet away from a water source, trail, or campsite. No one wants to see you poop, step in your poop, or contract a waterborne disease from your poop.
B) Dig a Hole
Use a trowel, stick, or rock to dig a cat-hole 6-8 inches deep. This depth is generally considered to promote proper decomposition (go deeper and you'll bypass the most active part of the soil) while keeping your feces out of the reach of animals and other nature enthusiasts.
If you miss the hole while doing your business use a stick (not the trowel that going to go back in your pack) to poke your log into the cat-hole. Of course, if the trowel is going to be stored in your hiking buddy's pack then it is perfectly acceptable to touch the poop with the trowel. Just kidding.
Once you've done your business and made sure everything has hit the target use a stick to knock a little dirt onto the poop and mix it around a bit. This expedites the composting process. Then cover the hole with dirt and you are good to go.
C) Assume the Position
There are several pooping positions for you to try. BUT, there is only ONE position for your pants. In order to poop (or pee, ladies) without worrying about getting any business on your shorts roll your pants and undies down to you knees (that's knees, not ankles). Then, for extra credit, roll your pant legs up to your knees as well. At this point it is pretty much impossible to get turd on your trousers! (Note: this position is also perfect for squat toilets on your adventures abroad.)
There are all sorts of positions that people like to employ when they take a poop in the woods. From simple to elaborate, some common options are:
i) Simple Squat
This position is simple but takes a little balance. Put one foot on either side of your cat-hole. Squat down so that your feet are flat on the ground and your bum is down near your heels. You can hang on to you knees for support.
ii) Hold a Tree
Very similar to the simple squat position but with a little added support. Find a small but sturdy tree (let's say 4-5 inches in diameter). Assume the squat position facing the tree and holding the trunk for support.
iii) Sitting on a log
Find a sturdy log laying on the ground. Sit on the log and scootch your butt back until it hangs well over the side of the log. Do your business as if you are sitting on a toilet. Luxurious but sometimes a little more exposed that you'd like to be.
iv) Back to Tree
Brace your back up against a tree with knees and hips at a 90 degree angel. Take your poop into a cat-hole waiting at the bottom of the tree. This one seems risky to me but many people swear by it.
D) Wiping Clean
There are three main ways to clean up after doing your business.
i) The natural method: use leaves, pine cones (go WITH the grain), a rock, stick, or moss to clean up. Just drop the used item into the cat-hole before you bury it. This is very acceptable from a leave no trace perspective.*
ii) Packed out TP: use toilet paper and pack it out with you. You can store your used TP in a Ziploc baggie. To disguise the unappealing site of used toilet paper you can cover the baggie in duct tape or even put a brown paper bag inside the Ziploc. This is a great leave no trace method, but a little intense for some beginners.
iii) Bury TP: Burying your toilet paper is less acceptable from a leave no trace perspective but it still a common practice. To do this just use a modest amount of organic, unscented, biodegradable toilet paper, toss it in the cat-hole, pee on it, and bury it. Peeing on your toilet paper is recommended because it compacts it down and reduces the chances it will resurface later. Rather than pee on it you could also pour a little water from your canteen (I hear you ladies).
After you've finished with your cat-hole its a great idea to clean up with some hand sanitizer.
METHOD 3: PACK IT OUT, OR, THE POOP BURRITO
I spend most of my time camping and hiking in the temperate rain forests of BC and Washington. Here the ground is wet, fertile, and teaming with lovely things like earthworms and bugs and microbes that will make quick work of composting your doo-doo. However, for people camping in arid, dry, rocky, sandy, dessert, etc conditions I'm sorry to tell you the burial is not a responsible method. Like your other waste materials, you're going to have to pack it out.
The first backcountry camping trip I ever did was a canoe trip to Black Canyon with Aztec Adventures while I attended San Diego State University. The trip was fabulous, one of my all time favorites, and creates a lot of lasting memories. One thing that I will NEVER forget from this trip is the phrase "poop burrito."
Allow me to explain. Before each Aztec Adventure trip, participants attend a planning meeting. At these meetings the group leaders set expectations, go over packing lists, distribute gear, etc. However, because this trip takes place in the desert and is home the the completely unusable outhouse I mentioned earlier, they also included a fairly graphic demonstration of what they've dubbed the poop burrito.
Materials needed for a poop burrito
- A sturdy container to keep poop in (I'll expand on this later)
- Toilet paper
- Sheets of wax paper (about 20" square)
- Sheets of brown butcher paper (about 20" square)
- Paper bags
- Find a private spot. Lay the brown paper on the ground and lay the wax paper on top of the brown paper.
- Cop a squat and do your business onto the wax paper.
- Wipe with TP and drop TP onto poop.
- Roll your poop up like a burrito first with the wax paper then with the brown paper.
- Put your steaming burrito inside a paper bag and roll the paper bag closed. You can even use tape if you wish.
- Deposit your neat little poop packet into your poop container and seal the container shut.
For the Aztec Adventure trip (12 people, 5 days) we used a 5 gallon bucket with a solid screw on lid and double lined the bucket with garbage bags. The bucket was bright orange so that we didn't accidentally mix it up with other buckets. Bulk was not an issue since we were traveling by canoe.
For a backpacking trip a popular option is a length of PVC piping with screw on end caps. You can find something like this at a hardware store. You could also buy yourself an opaque Tupperware with a snap on lid and clearly mark it so that it doesn't accidentally end up in the kitchen later. If you can't find an appropriate container that's opaque you could always line it with a garbage bag or cover the outside with duct tape.
Hopefully this backwoods pooping tutorial will help to make the outdoors just a little more approachable. How about you? Do you have any special tips on how to poop in the woods?
*Update: I did a post dedicated to using nature as TP specifically. Check that out here for more info.
This is hilarious. Especially the diagram of the options.
ReplyDeleteI love that it's so thoroughly researched and covered- nice journalism!
Thanks! Maybe it's just me, but i think this is an important barrier to camping for some people.
ReplyDeleteJust trying to help more people expereince the outdoors!
I've heard of PVC pipe being used as a poop container in snow trips. You can get ends that screw on, it's easier to pack that a bucket or box, you don't want that thing cracking open while you scramble over rocks on the last day :)
ReplyDeleteI guess that going to toilet is an important barrier to hiking for many of us. The technical side is not the biggest issue to me. I do not like the risk that anyone shows up when I am sitting there squatting with my bottom uncovered. (Even though I know that everyone of my fellow hikers also do it!) I have been unlucky a couple of times and felt very embarrassed about it. Therefore it is fine that someone writes about it from time to time reminding us that it is a normal thing....
ReplyDeletehehe
ReplyDelete@Linda - girl, that sucks! I've been fortunate enough not to have been caught. My suggestion would definitely be to assign a lookout! I'm also a big fan of doing the business after dark. TMI? Ok, like this whole post isn't too much information!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletehay linda, i do that to
ReplyDeleteThis being a guided trip, you probably didn't realize that someone had to go back and flush your poo. Use a gelling agent like kitty litter or a blue bag if you're going to throw your poo in the dumpster folks (and I would recommend this over sitting by the toilet and waiting to flush your poos of indeterminate age one by one. I imagine this is very smelly).
ReplyDeleteActually in this case the whole garbage bag of burritos was just tossed the dumpster afterwards.
DeleteWhich is grossly irresponsible. That's why even disposable baby diapers say to flush the poo before tossing the dipe in the trash.
DeleteI thought im the only guy who is stuck now to poop
DeleteThese are great tips. The whole concept of packing it out/poop burrito is a little gross to say the least. I haven't done any extended hikes, but have pooped in the woods during day hikes a few times. I would imagine it can be embarrassing when you have to store your poop somehow and bring it with you (even just storing used toilet paper would be gross). But I guess everyone has to go poop sometime or other. However, I would think that constipation might become an issue with some people if they tend to hold it in instead of going when nature calls. I don't know; if I had to pack it out I would probably hold it in instead!
ReplyDeleteGood info, This articles was perfect to try and explain (to my not so outdoors liking wife) on how to tackle this part of back packing trip.
ReplyDeleteThank you
Great post! Two tips:
ReplyDelete* Toilet paper degrades slower than poo (especially in alpine areas) - When burying your poop, set your used TP on fire. Use a stick to stir around to make sure it burns well. Don't attempt if high forest fire risk.
* Poop container (not tried yet): Wide mouth Nalgene bottle. Put poop (closed burrito, or in [flushable] doggie bags) in the bottle. Duckt tape the outside to "hide" contents and avoid thinking it's your water bottle.
Just pop a squat HELLO PEOPLE its nature you think the local bear in the woods Carries his poop around the forest in neatly double wrapped "poop burritos" and if other hikers do not want to see a random pile of poo in the woods THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE COME HIKING. . .that is all
ReplyDeleteAmen to that, I don't think I would spend all that time prepping just to go poop.
DeleteAnimals do bury their poop, and they also know not to do their business near water sources. Humans aren't so savy. Nor is a pile of human poop with toilet paper scattered about a natural occurence. Nor is it decent to leave your poo around for others to find. A great page, this is.
ReplyDeleteGreat article on a delicate subject! It can be a horrifying thing for some city folk to think about, and although I don't think it is as big of a deal as some people make it out to be about the whole burying it so deep, etc, etc... neither do we need to get careless with it.
ReplyDeleteI disagree on Method 1 (as I maintain some natural composting outhouses as part of my volunteering: Do not do No. 1 in the outhouse - No. 1 is determental to the composting of No. 2... Go No. 1 somwhere in the woods and the visit the outhouse for No. 2 only...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI do have a cannon—I’ve had it for 22 years—and it’s full of the very tips mentioned by CB. I’m the author of the international bestselling outdoor guide “How to Shit in the Woods: An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art.” The feisty, jam-packed 3rd edition was recently released.
ReplyDeleteI’ve responded here for two reasons: first, because I was stunned that CB did not reference the origins of about 95% of her blog knowledge (then again, maybe she got it from one of the other 63,000-ish results when you Google my title) and, second, because she deserves kudos for broaching the subject at all. Pooping in the backcountry IS a touchy topic, and it’s a serious problem, particularly in areas of high-use and fragile ecosystems. As outdoor folks, we are now often encouraged to haul home our poop, or the whole business, with increasing frequency, is shifting to mandatory. The practice of packing-it-out began with river runners in the Grand Canyon in the early 1970s. But nowadays, it’s readily employed by hikers, rock climbers, sea kayakers, horse packers, and mountaineers. Many viable containers are on the market to assist both group and solo sojourners with responsible disposal. Some products are throw-away, others washable/reusable. Keep in mind that plastic bags cannot be tossed into vault or home toilets, and deposits of raw fecal matter are not welcome in our regular garbage and landfills.
For lots more of the “real and responsible poop” come visiting at www.Kathleeninthewoods.net where you can find helpful links and also jump onto my blog “Shooting the Shit.”
As I dream about and research a future AT hike, this is the only article I have come across on the subject of waste in the woods. EVERY book I've read has, at best, made only vague references to the process and no packing list even mentions an optional trowel or pack-out bag. Thank for the refreshingly blut, practical, and thorough advice! This demystifies a potentially daunting subject.
ReplyDeleteVery good. The only caution that might be mentioned is using the local flora to scrub your butt may be a little risky. Don't ask me how I know that.
ReplyDeleteAwesome article. I'm just about to go camping for a week in a remote coastal area. Prepared for everything but hadn't thought about pooping.
ReplyDeleteBut then again, no one else in our party of 4 has brought it up ... I guess i get that honor. ;)
Packing out poop is ridiculous. We are animals. Bears poop in the woods. Some eco-terrorist thought of this idea no doubt! Leave your poop in the woods. It is organic and will decompose just like the bear poop! Rodent poop is more dangerous than human poop as when dry can carry the Hanta virus. We are all exposed to coliform bacteria everyday from all the people we are around who don't wash their hands and now you are saying we can't leave it in the woods! ROFL! Don't leave it near water-sources is important even though no one (sane) drinks unfiltered water on a hike).
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm not suggesting that you need to pack it out during a hike in the woods, but it's a good practice in other areas such as the dessert.
DeleteMan has been pooping in the deserts, the mountains, in the jungles for thousands of years, using leaves, bark, moss, rocks, socks, underwear, and yes even his fingers. I can garrantee he never pack it out or stirred it or worried about peeing or not on it, good grief - next well have greenies worried about passing gas on the trail. Man, just like any other animal has not killed anyone with a misplaced pile....
DeleteDefinitely kills the splendor of being somewhere amazing when you come across TP and shit next to the trail.
DeletePreach. So True.
DeleteActually in a lot of parks it's required and the rangers actually issue bags intended for your solid waste. Not something anyone likes to deal with, but a reality of camping in some areas.
DeleteSo far, E. coli outbreak stumps health officials - see:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2012/06/09/so-far-e--coli-outbreak-stumps-health-officials.html
Most likely cause - People creating "poop burritos" and bringing them back home!
Thanks so much, I'm putting a link to this post on my blog http://homelessgal.blog.com/ (Homeless and Female) to share on my How to Shit in the Woods post, very well described indeed. Thank you.
ReplyDeletei think it could be extremly disgusting if u suffer from diarrhoea or slimy poo....thats definitly a barrier for me
ReplyDeletethis article is immense lol
ReplyDeletealways take Liquorice with you, helps bung you up which makes it less messy ;)
nothing i didnt already know but i did enjoy the diagrams. shoooo cute!
ReplyDeletethanks for being so specific. I've looked up this subject many times online, and until yours they've always just talked about digging a cat hole, going 200 feet away and pack it out Etc, withondut ever actually discussing the dropping of pants and choosing a position. . Thank you for covering everything necessary to poop in the woods.
ReplyDeletelove it. i really appreciate it
ReplyDeletePet Food
Being an avid hiker for several years I am quite used to hide behind a bush when nature calls. I think that this post deals with the issue in a sensible way. As Linda writes above the technical side of it is easy to master. The privacy issue is more difficult to handle. Not nice to sit there with white skin flashing when your friends come by. But I think most experienced hikers can survive such an experience. Besides i guess that after some years of outdoor activities all of us have experienced some such embarrassing moments.
ReplyDeletelove it haha
ReplyDeleteThat illustration is priceless... and anyone who needs it should not be in the woods ;)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSquatting behind a bush also used to be my least favourite part of outdoor life when I was younger. Even when hiking alone I felt pooping outdoor extremely embarrassing for a decent woman. Now at an age of 64 I am much more relaxed about it. In one or another way I nos realt appreciate that my body functions normally. It is a daily sign of no disease I feel. Taking the roll of tp and walking away to find a secluded spot is really no problem. I may even enjoy squatting there feeling the relief. Worrying about anyone coming by? Not really. It has happened and for sure a bit embarrassing just there and then. But I guess that most hikers are well aware of the challenge.
ReplyDeleteI got rid of my shyness and fear of pooping in the wild some years back. We were staying for several days at a popular site for climbers to camp and train. No toilet around and one hour to drive to the nearest village the only realistic option was to go to toilet in the nature. People were peeing just behind their tents or cars. But it seemed like most of us went down a slope to an area with dense woods when in need of taking a dump. Everybody certainly tried to keep it as private as possible. But sometimes we could be around 50 climbers out there. Then privacy was not easy to achieve, especially in the morning! I think it was kind of a taboo. Everyone did it. Everybody knew that all others also did it. But it was never made an issue for conversation. I think we all felt that it really was nothing to talk about and just accepted that the possibility to be spotted by others or to observe a white bum among the trees was part of the daily life out there.
DeleteJust my experience too! Not from climbing, but from van life. We were a bit unprepared for the situation. I think we had an idea that toilets should be available everywhere! But after a few days both my wife and I were well acquainted with going in the wilderness. We soon discovered that we were not the only ones having such needs.
DeleteFor sure you are not the only ones! Just now staying with my van at a popular site in Norway. Every morning, typically between 6am and 8am, you can see several "lonely walkers" lurking into the terrain, obviously searching solitude by keeping distance to others. Some (but really quite few) are carrying their trowel and tp visible for others to see, leaving no doubt about their task out there.
DeleteMost of us tries to be less explicit, hiding the equipment in our pockets. But in realty we are just cheating ourselves. Everybody knows, if they care about it, what that young, sporty man walking alone away from the van at 7am is going to do. Even the decent senior woman leaving her husband for a stroll at 6:30am has no other purpose. If in doubt or extremely curious, only minutes later you are able to spot them squatting behind a boulder, shorts at the knees, exposing their white bums to Mother Nature. When I go away I prefer to imagine that the nice young woman who spotted me on my way out this morning did not have a clue about what this grey haired man was going to do. But being realistic, she most probably understood it all, and perhaps thought, oh, well, now that area is occupied for some minutes.
This summer I joined a group of vintage van camper owners for a vacation trip to Scandinavia. We had decided to practice camping with equipment and clothing as used in the 1960s and 70s. Sometimes we stayed over night at designated camping sites, but very often we just parked our vans somewhere in the woods and mountains ("boondocking"). Then we also had to practice peeing and pooping in the wild, just as campers did fifty or sixty years back in time. It was the first time pooping outside for me.
DeleteBe sure, at a wildcamping site, when you see somebody walking alone to the bushes and returning some five to eight minutes later, you can't be in doubt about their purpose. Only few of us have the courage to carry paper or trowel visible to others.
DeleteWe are brought up to cheat ourselves. Certainly, I know what the man in the neighbour van is going to do when he walks away. He, and everyone else, also know what I shall do when they spot me walking away, but still, in the situation, I suppress such thoughts. I don't want to think that somebody might think that I am on my way to poop, or when I come back - oh, now she has been out there pooping. Does anyone recognize such thoughts?
Let's just try to be frank. We all poop. And hikers, bikers and campers sometimes just have to do it in the bushes.
I totally understand what you mean. The first week or so after I moved in with my boyfriend, I would go to a convenience store down the street from our apartment to poop, because I didn't want him to hear me do it in the house. Finally I thought "well, I've heard him do it and I still love him, so he should feel the same if he hears me do it."
DeleteI also had the experience of being the only woman on a trail construction crew. We often worked in very remote areas with no toilets. If my male colleagues saw me going into the woods with paper and shovel, they would be sure to make some crude joke, like "What, did she forget to do it before work?" or "It looks like her breakfast didn't agree with her." It was terribly embarrassing. and some days I held it in and game myself a stomachache rather than deal with the mockery.
I "learned this lesson" this summer, on a camping trip lasting six weeks. The first week or so, I tried to avoid going in the bushes and postponing it till reaching a toilet. This strategy just gave me stomach aches and constipation.
DeleteAs days went on, I realized that virtually everyone walking away alone in the morning was going to toilet. Then I forced the hyper-rational side of me to overrule the emotional fuzz in my head. One morning I just put a bunch of tp. in my pocket and walked away. The the "ice was broken". My first outdoor poop was a reality. Sure, I know what others might think in their heads (just as I do myself!) but that didn't hinder me in keeping normal motions for the last five weeks.
There should come up a new "proud-pooper"-movement. That should be a relief (!) for me and many others I think.
I had another experience while hiking. I came across a sign for the toilet, and walked in the direction to find a "thunder box". I proceeded to use it, as I badly had to go. As I was seated, making "thunder", a whole troop of Boy Scouts walked past. I had not realized how close they were to the trail! I could hear them laughing and making childish comments ("Is that lady pooping?" "I can see her tushy!" etc.) Several of them waved to me.
DeleteI wanted to bury my face in my hands and just wait for them to be gone. But another part of me realized... well, they are kids, it is normal for kids to laugh at toilet humor of that kind, so I may as well add to their enjoyment. I smiled and waved back, and then made a funny face like I was struggling and then relieved, which made them laugh even harder.
Finally I asked if any of them had paper, and the scoutmaster threw me a roll. I returned it to them that evening, when I found that their campsite was right next to mine!
Thunder boxes are scary things! They leave no sense of privacy, either for young men or mature ladies. But we all have to shit, so what does it mean if you see a naked bum, whether it's on such a device or squatting between the trees? Let's take it with a smile and rejoice that our bodies are working as intended. It is human. That's the way it has to be.
DeleteAnd, by the way, be sure that the boy scouts did it too! If you had been looking around, in particular in the early morning, you should not have been surprised even to spot the scoutmaster with his bottom bare. I know for sure. I am a scoutmaster.
DeleteIn Denmark, the scouts have something called the "Forest poo badge" which you can receive when you have shown that you have mastered the art and have done it a certain number of times!
DeleteI tend to think thunder boxes are a little less embarrassing than just digging a hole in the woods. On a thunder box, people may see your bottom, but at least they don't see what's coming out of it. Also, if you are a woman (like me), they may assume you are only peeing, which is somehow less embarrassing.
DeleteIf someone sees me squatting, I imagine them thinking "Shame on her! She couldn't go somewhere further from the trail?" But on a thunderbox, even if I am visible, I feel that I am using the designated place and thus above reproach.
Yes, the scouts and the scoutmaster also had to do the same. I saw several scouts walking past my campsite to the thunderbox the next morning, toilet roll in hand, some of them seemingly in quite a hurry or walking bow-legged. (Last night's dinner had been bean soup!)
The scoutmaster was around my age (mid-20s), handsome and very fit. I did not see him with his bottom bare, but I have to admit I find the mental image a bit exciting. I wonder if he liked seeing me in that position?
I used to work in Denali National Park at the basecamp for mountain climbers. There was a thunderbox that was fully visible from camp, but there was a wooden shield around the seat so that the user's buttocks at least were not visible. You can find pictures of it in use if you search "Denali toilet".
DeleteThunderboxes are very different. I have experienced some that really are just a place to sit down on a box or a tube when pooping without any shelter around, merely just hidden among the trees. The lid may cover exposure backwards but else....... I try to avoid them and I rather find a secluded spot somewhere else where I can squat.
DeleteNot really a thunderbox, but what in German is called a "Donnerbalke" (thunderbeam), just a horisontal wooden stick between two trees to sit on, with a trench behind where the poop is to fall.
DeleteOne morning when sitting there one of the other hikers, a mature woman, came up. Oh sorry, take your time, I can wait, she said and went some meters back and just stood waiting for me to finish, certainly looking in another direction.
I managed to finish quickly and she immediately took over the place. I put the roll of toilet paper in my backpack. When walking away I heard unmistakeable sounds from behind. Looking briefly over my shoulder I saw a white bum sitting on the thunderbeam.
Shortly later we had breakfast together, just as noting particular had happened. Just as a confirmation of the slogan what happens in the woods should be left in the woods.
"Unmistakeable sounds"... yes, the sounds of relief! I have never seen a hiker in that position, but sometimes I have heard them!
DeleteWell, as an avid hiker, I have seen several hikers squatting, and I must admit that I have been spotted myself too. When I took up hiking, going in the outdoors was what I found most disgusting with outdoor life. However, now I am used to it and don't bother any more. The pain connected with putting it off is worse than the risk of being spotted.
DeleteIf you google "donnerbalken", you can see images of soldiers sitting next to each other using it. The arrangement when I was a girl scout was similar. I would go out with other girls to the donnerbalken and we would sit next to each other to keep warm. I remember us laughing at each other's noises.
DeleteWhen I was a girl scout (in the 1960s) we also had such constructions. I hated them. When in need, I used to stick away and find a spot in the surrounding woods to squat. However, we were told that it was "taboo" to do it that way when at the camp site, but ok when hiking. That was long before LNT was invented.
DeleteThere was a girl in my scout troop who also didnt like using the thunderbeam, but instead of going in the woods (strictly forbidden) she just held it in. Poor girl! In a day or two she was pale and clammy, always squirming and fidgeting around, and looking very uncomfortable. Finally the scoutmistress found out what was happening and gave her a laxative. Well, that morning me and my friend were sitting on the donnerbalken, chatting and gossiping and doing our business, when this poor girl ran in and sat down beside us. The noise was incredibly loud! But her embarrassment soon turned to relief, abd she said that she felt silly for waiting so long. Silly to be too modest about such things. Everyone has the same parts, and perfirms the same functions.
DeleteJust some questions out of curiosity as I have never been a scout. (1) Do the scoutmasters/scoutmistresses use the same toilet/thunderbeam as the scouts, or do they have their own facilities? (2) Do scouts learn how to use a thunderbeam or pooping in the bushes?
DeleteOne morning walking in the mountains, I came across a group of scouts camping in the mountains. Obviously, they didn't have a designated place to go, because I spotted some of them just squatting at stones/bushes well away from their tents. Poor girls I thought. No real shelter up there on the mountain plan. The white bum visible to any passers-by even on some distance.
Another question. When girls and boys hike together, do they make any special arrangements? I would have been very embarrassed if a girl spotted me in such a situation. I have never been pooping outside because I have only made short trips in the mountains.
Yes, scout leaders use the same facilities as their scouts, depending on gender. I remember once sitting at the donnerbalken and my group leader came in and sat by me. At first I was ashamed to empty my bowels so near a leader, but soon I realized (because of certain noises) that she was doing the same thing herself. After that it was easy for me.
DeleteSeparate facilities for boys and girls, though. Once I went down the wrong path by mistake, to the boys' donnerbalken, and saw three boys sitting there with bottoms bare. I left quickly before they coulld see me.
Thanks for a quick answer! Good for the boys that they did not see you. I think I should have "died" if a girl spotted me.
DeleteAnother question. When hiking then thunderbeams are not used??
DeleteYes, when hiking we just dig holes and squat over them, if needed.
DeleteIf you walk straight in on anyone by a mistake, how do you behave and what do you say? Must be very embarrassing for both?
DeleteDo everyone dig own holes, or do you have one in common?
DeleteI told that I once saw some girl scouts going up in the mountains. The distance was too long to see if they made holes.
DeleteWell, it must be a very strange feeling just to pull down and squat without any particular shelter. Isn't it??
DeleteNot too embarrassing to see someone, as long as they're of the same gender. "Everyone knows that everyone goes", as my scout leader puts it. A smile and an "excuse me" is sufficient.
DeleteWhen hiking we typically use separate holes, although sometimes a girl will say "oh, I have to go to" and ask to use the hole with you.
Thanks again for answer. This is a unknown "world" to me. I am not used to hiking and camping.
DeleteIn Sweden girls and boys are very integrated as scouts. Even in the patrols girls and boys are together. When at camps there nowadays mostly are lockable cabins, not thundersticks! But when hiking the situation may be different. You are expected to dig a hole for pooping, but sometimes, when there are dense bushes, it may not always be done. Girls often go peeing, but seldom pooping, together. When hiking in the mountains or woods you may happen to spot others squatting, although not so frequently as one perhaps could think. But I must admit that I have seen several boys and even male leaders squatting.
DeleteYes, we sometimes used cabins / outhouses in the scouts as well. Only problem was that the boys outhouse was right next to the girls, so any sounds made in one were clearly audible to the other. For some rrason I found that more embarrassing than sitting next to other girls on the thunderbeam. But now that Im grown and have lived with a man, I no longer care if the opposite sex hears my business. I can use the unisex toilet at my workplace with no problem.
DeleteAt school we have stalls with full walls. They shield very well for sounds. I like that. When hiking it is just another case. Everybody just has to accept the possible lack of privacy.
DeleteYes, I remember those stalls from when I was in school. Very thick walls, for which I was often very thankful, given the quality of the school lunches.
DeleteBut camping is very different, as you say. On a thunderbeam, not only do you see your friends' (and sometimes leaders') backsides. but you hear plenty of the "thunder" from which they take their name. Thankfully we all had a good-natured sense of humor about it. Ah, I miss my scouting days...
When I was a scout and we were hiking, we had a lot of euphemisms on those matters. "Lay a cable", "Drop the kids", "Nourish the nature", "Feed the plants", "Do like the foxes", "Go behind a bush", "Answer the call of nature", "Make a deal with Mother Nature", "Empty the warehouse", "Get rid of the stuff", "The brown duty", "The morning duty", "Alone with the trees", "Pay the loan" and even more which I cannot remember just now.
DeleteAnd if we spotted others it might be called: "Moons were shining", "White things observed between the trees", "Big mushrooms growing out there", "He/she taking care of business/doing big tasks", "Impregnate paper brown", "Doing private matters" and so on.
I think the boys in my scout troop had more interest than girls in joking about defecation, coming up with colorful euphemisms ("taking a dump", "painting the paper brown" etc). Although they tended to talk about it more when they thought no girls were listening.
DeleteAmong the girls, there was some giggling, but in general we viewed using the thunder beam first as an embarrassment, then when we got over that, simply a task to be completed. (Though I'll admit it was sometimes an enjoyable task... nothing like coming back to camp feeling much lighter!)
So also with us. The boys are those joking with it. I think we are more embarrassed about it, especially when hiking because we then must do it somewhere in nature. But even then the boys are not so brave as they speak. One my best friend came by just as my brother was squatting. It took several weeks before he found it ok to meet with her after that! He felt so ashamed. She just smiled of it.
DeleteYes, exactly. The boys joke about it among themselves but are ashamed to acknowledge their needs around girls.
DeleteOnce I was hanging out at the boys' campsite, talking to a friend, and a boy walked back to camp from the thunderbeam, slapping his stomach and saying "Ahh, I feel so much better! I just took the biggest dump!"
When he saw that I was in the camp he stopped in his tracks and turned red. I reassured him by saying, "Good for you! I did the same this morning." Being reminded that girls do it too seemed to reduce his embarrassment a little, and he managed a laugh. Poor boy!
I am wearing glasses and one of the boys in my patrol used to tease me for those. In the long run I felt it somewhat annoying and asked him to stop. But he didn't listen to that, until on we were on a hike. Then I happened to come by just when he was squatting with a bare bum in the bushes. No doubt what was happening. I smiled and said hi. He didn't say anything. After that incident he never has said anything annoying to me!! I guess he fears that I shall tell anyone about the incdent.
DeleteLOL! Oh, that's a great story! That boy got some karma! I bet he was afraid to poo in the woods after that, for fear of being seen. Probably held it in and gave himself a bellyache.
DeleteWearing glasses is a stupid thing to make fun of someone for. I am a glasses wearer myself. As you get older, you'll find that there are a lot of people who think women look good in glasses :)
Well, annoying and tiresome to be called a "red cobra" (I have red hair) more than really experienced as bullying, because he always addressed me so. If he had continued, I would have called him "shiny moon" or like that.
DeleteI guess he might have pooped outside afterwards too, but I don't know. We have been on several hikes since that incident.
I think he still fears that I might use it in some or another way, because he now always behaves polite towards me. I think he understands that I have not forgotten neither the incident or what he used to call me.
DeleteAh, red hair and glasses is a good look. Silly to make fun of someone for that. I have brown hair myself, but I dyed it red for a while because I think it looks good that way.
Delete"Shiny moon"! Ah, what a funny mental image! I can just picture him crouching there, round bum exposed for all to see...
Were you more disgusted by the sight, or amused?
Not really disgusted. I was out there for the same reason, and I know what it looks like when I squat myself. But I found it amusing, not least just because it was that particular boy. I shall never forget the despaired expression in his face when he saw me and in vain tried to pull up! I just smiled.
DeleteMy uncle used to tease me with silly questions which annoyed me a lot. On a picnic outing I by chance happened to spot him squatting with trousers at his knees. Undoubtedly he was pooping. Afterwards none of us commented it, but I could see that he was embarrassed. After that he has never teased me any more. I guess he fears that I shall tell someone that I have seen him in such a private situation.
DeleteI think it is somewhat amusing to see men squatting to poop. On scouts' hikes I have seen some boys and even one adult leader in that situation and I have also seen a truck driver going to toilet outside at a rest area.
It was surely a fitting lesson for him!
DeleteI can confirm that, as a Boy Scout, my friends and I sat on the thunderstick together with little shame, and would make jokes about the subject, but we would no doubt have been embarrassed if a girl saw us.
DeleteI also would point out that thunderbeams have different designs. Sometimes it is a log, sturdy enough to sit on. Sometimes it is a mere stick, not strong enough to bear your full weight, so that you have to lean against it in an almost standing position with your bum sticking over it. But even the latter is better than an unsupported squat!
I was a Girl Scout, and my troop frequently went on campouts etc. with the local Boy Scout troop. This was when I was a teen and had just started noticing boys and being attracted to them. I must confess that sometimes I would hide in the bushes by the boys' thunderbeam, and admire the nice bottoms of the handsome boys as they sat there together. Thankfully I was never caught.
DeleteWe often went hiking both girls and boys together. Then I have spotted boys squatting and I also found that "interesting", especially those a few years older than me.
DeleteAs a boy, I made similar obsedvations of older girls when I was around the same age. And sometimes it was clear that they weren't just peeing. A good reminder that the girls I liked weren't marble statues, but were as human as I was, and the oatmeal they ate for breakfast went to the same place as mine did.
DeleteBefore I took up hiking as a scout when I was 12, I had never reflected upon the fact that also girls had to poop. Then it became obvious to me too that the oatmeal they ate got the same fate through the digestive system as my food. Out there, find some shelter, then just shorts down, squat and poop. Everybody did, even the leaders.
DeleteIt has to be compact and lightweight, of course, with good optical quality. Some of us need long eye relief to accommodate our eyeglasses. camping tents for sale
ReplyDeleteI am also among those who had to "learn" how to go to toilet in the outdoors, and lot least that it was a natural as well as necessary competence to have when staying outdoor for more than just short day trips. The technical side no problem, and mostly not even the privacy challenge. As written above, every hiker probably knows all about it so why bother if anyone should get a glimpse of bare bottom between the branches?
ReplyDeleteI agree! I also think that the attitudes towards outdoor pooping have improved considerably last few years. Where I live there are lots of hikers and boondockers camping in the wilderness. Quite often when jogging in the woods in the morning I spot someone taking care of business in the bushes. No toilets around, and when nature demands that is their only option. Less than ten years ago there were piles of poop and amounts of stained toilet paper behind every stone or dense bush at the most popular sites for pitching a tent or parking a van. But now the terrain is quite pristine, even though the number of campers has increased considerably. The focus on LNT practice seems to have had great effect. Still the privacy issue exists. Young sporty men and mature grannies, the challenge is equal and I have seem them all. No door to lock, you just have to accept the risk to be seen squatting with trousers at the knees. But as stated above I also think that most of us out there do not bother. It is a part of the game as a hiker or boondocker.
DeleteI think that is correct related to hikers, campers and other outdoor enthusiasts. But an ordinary tourist does usually not carry a shovel, nor even toilet paper. I live close to an archaeological site, visited by thousands of tourists every summer. There is no public toilet here. Some are coming by busses and they mostly nowadays have toilets onboard. But quite many come by hired cars or bikes. The first they do when arriving, often is searching for a toilet. Many of them have waited for an hour or two hoping to find facilities when arriving here. The only realistic solution is to try to find shelter behind a bush. Poor people! I do not know how many desperate persons I have seen rushing into the terrain or squatting exposing their white bum to the nature. For sure as mentioned above, age and sex no difference. But I think tourists feel it much worse than hikers who are used to going outdoor. I guess that the tourists feel both humiliated and embarrassed when the only option they have is to pee and poop onto the ground.
DeleteWell, going to toilet outdoor isn't that bad! I have just returned home after a surfing holiday travelling around in a van for almost 8 weeks. We soon got used to peeing behind the car and pooping in the shrubs. Seemed like everyone else also did. Every day, especially in the morning, I saw others heading for the shrubs with a roll of toilet paper in the hands. Every now and then it was also possible to spot others out there trying to cover up their white, shining bum when squatting behind a bush. Nobody ever spoke about it. No need for that because it was so obvious that everybody had to do it the primitive way. I think even those having a toilet in the van often went to the bushes, to avoid filling up the toilet tank. Really nothing to be ashamed of. My girl friend calls squatting to take a dump "the great equalizer" because everyone has to do it. Man or woman, young or old, no difference. Out there often there is no other option than pulling trousers down and squat and let go. It should not be embarrassing to practice one of our most natural activities the "natural way"? If caught just there and then, a smile an the simple word "excuse" from both involved makes up for the possible embarrassment.
DeleteWhat do u do if u don't have a outhouse, shovel, or poop poll. Plz help time sensitive.
ReplyDelete1. Find a huge stone or a bush in decent distance from the camp site, trail and water to hide behind.
Delete2. Remember to pull shorts enough down to get a path for free fall of the waste. Perhaps easy to forget when stressed?
3. Squat.
4. Widen the butt crack with your hands, reduces the need for wiping. (If troubled from imaging what you look like in that position, visualize one of your friends. He/she for sure looks like you.)
5. "Open up" and pray that nobody comes by, which luckily very seldom happens.
6. Wipe with a smooth stone, leaves or like.
7. Cover up what you have left on the ground.
8. Afterwards, nothing to be ashamed of.
9. Being a bit observant you may see others walking into the woods alone, especially in the morning. Do you think they are looking for flowers? Nope.
10. In some groups it turns out to be an issue for conversation, but still in many groups often not talked about at all. Though not mentioned, everybody has to do it. The tough male climber, the pretty female surfer, the mature hiking couple, students, university teachers, nurse, doctors, just like you and me (a lawyer by the way). Even decent mothers in law (yes, I can tell). Remember, men also have to expose the white bum to the nature when pooping (the great equalizer out there).
11. Do never put it off till later. You only risk severe constipation. When I started hiking, that happened to me. I married into an outdoorsy familiy. In the begnning I hated hiking with them. But once I spotted my mother in law, well, nothing more to be told here. Then I just decided that if she can, I can.
12. If hesitating, try to visualize one of the others in the group and think: if he/she can, then I also can.
13. But still acknowledge the need for privacy. It is not nice to be caught, even for "pros". I know from own experience.
14. Then, read and learn details from the original posting here. "Be prepared" as scouts say. Also valid for this situation.
Hilarious list of advice. I can support them all! #12 is a nice way to normalize it. When hiking as a girl scout I hated to take a dump in the woods. Nobody talked about it and I often had a feeling that I was the only one with such needs. Even among the girls we did not mention pooping, only peeing. We often went peeing together, but always we went away alone when to take a dump. As for the boys. We often spotted them peeing just at the trail, but squatting? Nope.
DeleteAs a quite regular morning pooper, I found it convenient to try to do my business in the early morning, just before the rest of the group stood up. Putting tp in the pocket, sneaking away, down a slope, at the back of a hill, behind a dense bush or a huge stone. Looking carefully around to be sure that nobody else was there. Then shorts down, squatting and opening up. This was in the 1960s (I am almost 70 now), nobody had heard of LNT. The big things were left there on the ground, the paper put inbetween stones or roots. Then walking back knowing that it was over for this time too, and hoping to meet no others before back at the tents.
Then once, I accidentally observed one of our leaders when squatting to poop in the bushes. I immediately found the situation comic as well as a bit embarrassing. Luckily he did not spot be before I managed to get away. Every now and then I still recall the image of a decent and humble mature man, trousers at his knees, bending forward when wiping his bottom. If I the last 55 years have had to struggle with the courage to leave the group to take care of my business, this obviously was a landmark event to look back at. Even brave and decent men must perform this somewhat humiliating procedure.
And for the boys among you, girls do not always only pee when squatting. Yes, we have all the same needs. As an adult I used to be a scout leader for many years. Then I discovered that many of the leaders systematically went to take care of this task early in the morning, to avoid being spotted by the youths, honor be them for it. But it in a way disguise our common human needs. When I together with to other mature women was a leader for a group of cubs, we struggled to get the kids to understand that sometimes they just would have to poop outdoor. We decided that we as leaders should be open about our own needs, for example saying oh, you have to excuse me for some minutes. I have to take the toilet paper and go to find a place where I can go to toilet. It seemed to function as intended. Only once I can remember that it was misunderstood. With a group of young teenagers I said just like that and went away. Then one of them came around as I was squatting. I think he was more surprised than me! He had toilet paper in his hand and anxiously said that he was looking for the toilets. I tried to smile and said like, eh, uh, yes, but this spot is just now occupied. I expected him to go away, but politely he turned away and stood waiting for me to finish! I so did and when leaving I said, perhaps not exactly with a smile, that now it is your turn. When back at the camp I told one of the other leaders of the incident. She said, oh gosh, he asked me about the toilets! I gave him some paper and pointed the direction and told him to go behind a stone and squat and get it done. It was so it had to be at this hike, she had told him! On background of this order, I found his peculiar behavior not bad at all, just what to expect from a clumsy young pal. What he thought of the incident, I don't know. At least he got a live demonstration of how adults as well as kids have to deal with the issue.
I think I was the teenager in your story. In any case, something very similar happened to me. It couldn't be helped, as it was just after dinner and we had both had a lot to eat. I was new to the outdoors and I was very startled when I saw you. I didn't know the procedure at all - should I leave, turn around or squat down next to her? I apologize again for any embarrassment I may have caused. But to be honest, my main thought as I was turned around, waiting for you to be done, was "I hope she finishes quickly, I'm absolutely bursting!"
DeleteI also had a quite similar experience when I was a teenager. The whole family, including my grandparents, was out in the woods for a day trip to pick berries. After lunch I had to take a dump and I asked my mom if she knew about any toilets around. She didn't, and gave me some paper napkins from the lunch basket and pointed at a bushy area and suggested that I could run over there and get it done. When turning behind the bushes I got a surprise. There was my granddad squatting just about to wipe after he had left a huge load. Luckily he did not observe me and I succeeded in getting away unseen and went in another direction to take care of mu business. I have never told neither him or my mom about the incident.
DeleteVery true point about the importance of group leaders announcing their needs, so that the topic is introduced for any new campers who might be embarrassed to ask about it. I have a friend and hiking partner who would usually excuse herself for trips to the bushes by saying, "I'm going to go and lose some weight!"
DeleteLose some weight... Honestly the light, empty feeling after defecating a lot is really wonderful. And I think that squatting in nature is better for the digestion, and helps the body to empty itself out more fully, versus sitting on a porcelain throne. Maybe it's just female vanity, but after a good poo, I always pat my stomach to see that it's a bit flatter than before.
Nice description from Anna! I also enjoy the light, empty feeling after defecation, not least when getting really emptied as I often feel it when I have done it i squat position. I am an eager hiker, thus often in need of pooping outside.
DeleteWhen I was younger this was among the least favorite moments of outdoor life. But now it don't bother me anymore. When urge appears I take the roll of toilet paper and find some shelter in the bushes or among the rocks or behind a small hill. Privacy issues? Not really. Mostly nobody comes by. If it occasionally occurs, the person coming mostly disappears in a hurry. I guess the sight of a retired female, strict teacher's bare bottom and white thighs, probably scares most people!
Luckily my hips and knees still allow me to squat. When in addition my bowels work, I take comfort in the fact that these are good signs that life is not over yet.
Advice #12 above is a powerful one. As a girl scout I often experienced constipation when hiking. I asked our family doctor, a scout leader herself, for advice. She said that when she was hiking and hesitated to go, she convinced herself to do it and never postpone it by thinking actively on another hiker (often a man!) squatting with bare thighs and bottom. It appears childish and comic, but it is so it must be done by any healthy hiker, she said. I tried to use this mental technique, but it was very difficult to imagine others squatting with a bare bum out there. But at one certain occasion I happened to spot one of the boys as well as one of the male leaders squatting. Afterwards I have been thinking of them. Last summer I went for a long distance hike at GR20. Then I spend many distances walking with a man, much older than me. In that situation I found it difficult to go to toilet in the bushes, telling him that I had to and so on. He was a very serious and decent type, not easy for me to imagine him squatting with trousers down. But one day I accidentally walked straight in on him. Oh sorry, he said with an embarrassing smile and afterwards he excused that I had seen things that I should have been spared. We all do, don't we I answered and we both smiled. After that incident I have had no problems with this. He became my "pooping model". The cultural norms have to be challenged. Imagining normal, but still "forbidden", situations may help. But, I flush when I think that some of my friends may use me as their pooping model!! I wonder how many out there who use this type of techniques?
Delete"visualize one of the others in the group"!! What a bright idea! My "in law"-family are great outdoor enthusiasts. I hate it, but have to join in at times. I also hate pooping in the woods, but occasionally it is unavoidable. I used to think of my mother-in-law --- until I really spotted her. She is 72 and still sporty, nothing to say about that. However, not a pleasant experience to see a decent lady in that unmistakeable position. Luckily she did not spot me. I think that was good for both of us.
DeleteThanks for sharing nice information about poop garbage bag with us. i glad to read this post.
ReplyDeleteThe stories in the comment section had me laughing! I think that anyone who has spent time in the outdoors has had a similar experience. If anyone wants to exchange more funny stories about going to the toilet outdoors, they can contact me at annapenn34@yahoo.com.
ReplyDeleteYes, for sure. I also think that anyone used to hiking and other activities in the wilderness has lots of stories to tell. Some about being caught squatting with shorts at the knees. (I flush when trying to remember some of my own accidents, for example when I pulled down and squatted without spotting the husband of my sister standing peeing on the other side of the bush.) Others about walking in on another hiker exposing his/her bare bottom to the ground. (I also flush by some of them, for example when walking in on the father of my best friend when he is wiping after placing a brown cable behind a stone.) Some on tactics to cope without toilet paper (using type maple leaves), and others related to bugs attacking the vulnerable skin down there (just three minutes in the bushes of northern Lapland was enough to leave me with over 40 itching mosquito bites on my buttocks and thighs). Shit happens, as my grandfather sarcastically commented when I came by just as he was squatting with naked thighs and a roll of toilet paper in his hands when our familiy was out picking berries last weekend. Well, shit has to happen when staying outdoor for some time. Really nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. Grandparents do it, adults do it, children do it. Nobody likes to be observed in that situation, but why bother?
DeleteWhen I became eager with outdoor life back in the early 1970s I think going to toilet outside was an even more private issue than today. I started out as a girl scout and I still remember how anxious I was about pooping outdoor when hiking. For those short trips for one or two nights, I tried to put off the urge as best I could. But for hikes lasting longer that was not possible. I soon experienced that at one point of time it just HAD to be done. The first few times I had no clue how the challenge was approached by the others. Nobody mentioned it, nor it was discussed in any way.
ReplyDeleteI put some paper in my pocket and walked away, far away from the others, behind a stone or some dense bushes, shorts down, squat and get it done. I was lucky, nobody spotted me. But after a while I occasionally noticed used paper an even piles of poop behind those stones and bushes. No doubt that at least some others did just like me.
One particular incident I still remember. It was early morning, just at sunrise. I had walked well into the woods. But just when squatting I heard someone coming. It was one of my leaders. I crouched down so that he should not spot me, which I obviously also succeeded with. Just 20-30 meters away from me he stopped, looking carefully around before pulled shorts down and squatted. No doubt what he was doing. I still remember feeling a combination of embarrassment, disobedience and excitement when becoming an involuntarily observer to the toilet visit of this poor guy. He finished without spotting me. But at least I had learnt that even the leaders had to do it just as myself.
As years have passed, the embarrassment in such situations has (almost) disappeared. But still I feel it belongs to the private sphere. For example, not so easy to tackle when my 5 year old grandson just appears when I am squatting and asks "are you pooping, gandma?" Not to mention when he explains for the rest of the family that he saw grandma pooing in the woods!!
From another grandmother here. I have also become more relaxed about this issue as years have passed. I am now over 70, but still quite active with outdoor life. I don't bother any more if someone accidentally should spot my white bum and thighs among the bushes. But I don't like anyone actually spying at me in that situation, which I, by the way, experienced last summer for the first time in my life. Camping together with a good friend up in the mountains, we both one morning experienced a young man (boy?) actually positioning himself in the terrain so that he could get a view of us when we tried to hide to take care of our needs. Afterwards we have both managed to laugh at it, wondering what joy a young man could get from seeing to older women going to toilet.
DeleteOnce I experienced such a situation too. One morning camping up in the mountains I had found a suitable spot between some big boulders where I could squat and relieve myself. When about to finish, I discovered the head of a teenager boy just above another stone. No doubt that he saw me, and when he realized that I spotted him he immediately ducked behind the stone. I got furious and went over there to yell at him. When I got there I immediately understood that there was no reason for me to get upset. Poor boy. He was crouching, toilet paper in his hands, shorts at the knees, trying to hide as well as possible.
ReplyDeleteI have never been spied on in such a situation (as far as I know). Once on a road trip in northern parts of the Nordic region, however, it happened to my husband. We drove through the wilderness to reach a known destination. Somewhere along the way it was very beautiful. I asked him to stop so I could take some pictures. He would rather not, because he had a strong need to poop and wanted to reach our goal as quickly as possible. Nevertheless, he agreed to a short stop.
ReplyDeleteIt was so beautiful there that I wanted to stay for a while to wander around and look for motifs. The view was magnificent. There was also a small thicket of low birch trees, and not least there were few other tourists there. I had some napkins in my handbag and I persuaded him to take these with him and go behind the bushes and see if he just might as well poo there so we didn't have to stress any further. Somewhat reluctantly, he accepted it.
I saw that one of the other people in the parking lot, a teenage girl, noticed where he was going, but I thought nothing more of it. I walked a little up a slope to get a better view. Then I saw that the teenage girl was standing on a hill behind the thicket and looked downwards before she walked down. I continued further along the ridge and went down the same path as her. Right at the rear edge of the birch thicket, it dawned on me that she had been standing there watching my husband when he squatted and defecated, because there was a lot of fresh faeces and some used napkins.
When I got down to the parking lot I asked him if it had gone well, which he confirmed with a smile. I think he must have been so preoccupied with keeping an eye on whether anyone was coming in from the car park that he simply hadn't looked up the slope behind him.
I did not tell him about my observations. I think he would have found that very embarrassing. Not least because the teenage girl and her parents stayed in the same hotel as us for the next two nights.
I don't know, but I don't think it was a coincidence, judging by how aware she was of him going into the birches. But you can never be sure, because when there is no door to lock, this can happen. When we visited Lofoten a little later in the trip, I had to go behind some rocks to pee. There was a young man squatting with the toilet roll in his hands and his trousers around his knees. I think we both felt somewhat embarrassed about it. At the same break, my husband came smiling back from the other side of the road. There he had walked in on a young woman obviously also taking a dump. He had managed to withdraw before she noticed him, he said. Later we learnt to know that they were a young Dutch couple on a day trip by bike. So it can happen randomly too.
My husband and I pooped outdoor some more times during that vacation, then luckily without any complications.
Strange to think that maybe the girl was watching your husband deliberately. But, after all, teenagers are passionate, and sometimes that passion is diverted into strange channels...
DeleteAs a leader of outdoor trips, I have noticed that many of my charges are reluctant to poop on the woods, and will "hold it in" for days on end, resulting in discomfort and digestive problems. This may be due to fear about being seen, being bitten by a bug in a private area, etc. I have noticed this problem in both sexes, but it seems more common in men - possibly because women have to squat anyway to pee.
I have a strategy to combat this problem. On the first night of an expedition, I always cook my famous lentil chili. It is spicy enough, and rich enough in fiber, that "holding it in" becomes quite impossible!
Oh gosh, Anna! Do you tell them about the effects of your food? Or do you let them be surprised the next morning? I still remember how embarrassing I felt it myself the first time I realized that I had no other choice than go in the outdoors. I was hiking with a large group of youths. Nobody had mentioned anything about this in advance.
DeleteI don't specifically talk about effects of the food, but I do make sure everyone knows the procedure for disposing of waste in the woods. And I notify everyone where the toilet roll and shovel are kept, in case someone needs them urgently.
DeleteOnce at a one week mountain hike in Norway we had a very eager (and clever) guide, a woman at 50+. She was extremely "open" about the toilet issue, in my opinion almost too eager, at least for a man not used to talk about such issues. From the first beginning she reminded us that there mostly would be no access to toilets along the trail. She told us how important it was to keep normal motions, even though it would have to be done outdoor. "Nothing to worry about" she said, "remember that it's a normal thing to do for all of us, nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about." She also told about her own habits, telling that she tried to get it done in the morning, just after breakfast, then avoiding to search for a suitable spot along the trail. And so on, during the whole week. I got used to it, not only to go myself, but also to spot others squatting behind a boulder. Abstaining from details, the way, she lived as she taught! I still think of this overly eager woman when I occasionally poop in the woods.
DeleteMany years back, as a teenager, I spotted one of my scout leaders one morning on a week end hike as she was going to toilet in the bushes. Luckily she did not observe me. Afterwards I remember that I felt somewhat embarrassed and even ashamed for what I had experienced, even though it was just coincidentally.
DeleteDid the scout leader, by chance, have a small tattoo of a flower on her backside? I need to be sure it wasn't me...
DeleteSorry, I cannot remember. I don't think so, but I got too embarrassed to notice details. But I remember where it was and when...
DeleteWell, to be explicit. It happened in Dalarna in Sweden in August 2005 or 2006 or 2007. German and Swedish scouts together.
DeleteJust now seeing this post. Oh dear! It seems that that was indeed me. I thought I heard some rustling in the bushes.
DeleteI won't try to find out which of my scouts it was. I'm sure you must be embarrassed enough already. Well, as long as it was unintentional I forgive you. These things happen.
Heh, heh. Yeah sure! Such things happen! At the time I found it embarrassing, but today I smile about it. Many details are forgotten, but I remember the tan lines and the white butt. Afterwards I had a strong sense of guilt and thought I had done something illegal and seen something I shouldn't have seen.
DeleteI understand that it can of course be a bit disgusting to think that someone has seen you shitting. But that's quite normal, even a teenage boy realizes that even the adult leaders have no choice but to do it outdoors when you're hiking for many days. At least I learned that's how it should be done!
I am a scout leader as well. I had an incident with a teen boy who I think was watching me deliberately. Whenever I had to relieve myself he did as well. I suggested that we should go in opposite directions, and he agreed, but somehow he always ended up walking in on me. Once I caught him trying to hide behind a tree and watch me do my business, and I confronted him.
DeleteHe seemed very embarrassed and afraid that I might tell his family or the police. I said that I wouldn't, but he needed to never do such a thing again. I went on to explain that wanting to see women unclothed was normal for a boy his age, but that he needed to respect people's privacy.
Until he could get a girlfriend, I suggested that instead of spying on women, he should take care of his needs himself - here I made a hand gesture to indicate what I meant. He could go off by himself in the woods to do this, in the morning or during afternoon free time after we set up camp. And I would make sure that no one followed him, because he too was entitled to privacy.
He seemed to benefit from this frank discussion. From then on he never spied on me or any of the girls (it was a mixed group), and I was able to "unload" peacefully in the mornings without having to look behind me to see if I was followed.
Nice to reed and reflect upon the comments above. I am female. Now I am 44 and also a scout leader. Myself I have been a scout since I was 11. Brought up in an urban environment knowledge of nature was scarce. I have two comments on the presentation above.
DeleteOn my first hike (I was 11 or 12), nobody had told me anything about going to toilet. Peeing no issue. But pooping??? At day 3, I was about bursting. Luckily I, by a coincident, spotted one of the (male) leaders squatting to poop behind a boulder. Then I knew how to do it.
Now, as a leader, I have never experienced such a complex situation as described above by "Anonymous". However, I have experienced some youngsters showing up spying at me when peeing or pooping. It has never been a recurrent situation with the same kids. Therefore, I have not followed it further.
To our scouts we tell them about going to toilet in the outdoors, and that we all do it, but obviously some does not catch the point before they see it by their own!!
I think we should, and for sure I try, being more explicit about such issue to our scouts.
Well, bodily observations in young age may be very "impressive". I am now 45. At 12, I accidentally spotted my scout leader when he was squatting to take a dump in the bushes. He is now 73 and still one of my neighbors. I guess (hope) that he does not remember the incident. However, occasionally when I meet him, I enjoy myself with thinking what about telling him that he "learned me" to poop outside (which I have done lots of times afterwards). (A decent woman of 45 does not do that, ... I know!). Now I am scout leader myself. I know that scouts (boys!!) occasionally have spied at me, but I have never done anything about it. Best so, I think.
DeleteYou scout leaders have to be more explicit about these issues! Tell the scouts in details how to do it! I still remember my first hike. I was 12 or 13. I knew how to squat to pee when hiking, but nobody had ever said anything about pooping. My belly was about to burst after three or four days without pooping. I did not dare to ask anyone. One morning after peeing in the nature, I accidentally spotted one of my leaders from behind, squatting, bare arse. I immediate understood that he was pooping --- an older man that could have been my dad or granddad. That was how I learned it. I understood that it was normal. The rude way.
DeleteMy daughter is now a scout. I have told her this story and she ensures me that she does it when hiking, but she also tells that nobody has told anything about it. Perhaps understandable in the 1990s, but not now. Scout leaders! Tell your scouts about it, and tell them that you also do it yourselves when out there. Sure, as a mother I tell it, but the impact of a mature man telling that he also poops is greater. Even if the girls giggle a bit when it is said, it helps to normalize the whole thing. Let the scouts get to know that not only them but also their leaders have to poop.
Anonymous - you held it for three days? Ugh, my stomach hurts just thinking about that. It must have been a great relief to finally unburden yourself. And it must have taken quite a long time to release so much. Hopefully you found a comfortable spot. Personally I like to find a log or boulder to lean against, as illustrated above. At my age I find that squatting for a long time is hard on the legs.
DeleteFor sure, it was a great relief to get it out. I cannot recall how long time it took, but the need was so strong that I think it went quite easy. As far as I remember it was like a thick cable in two or three pieces. I used the same spot as the leader!
DeleteI prefer to squat deep, but I have seen some elderly almost standing, just bending a bit forwards in the hips. But in that position you get very visible to bypassers, even on distance.
That's a "strong" strategy! I can imagine the whole group the following morning squatting around, occupying every available bush and stone!
ReplyDeleteYes, sometimes "hiding places" are hard to come by. And sometimes I do see a camper shuffling around awkwardly or doing a little "dance", as they wait anxiously for another camper to return with the toilet paper so they can use it.
DeleteOh, sure. The trick with the toilet paper as a sign of when it is free in the bushes, is a good one ---- when only one group is out there. Last week not only my group was there, but also some scout leaders and a group of seniors. I'll not go into details...
DeleteHeh, heh, no need for any details. I can imagine it all, based on own experiences. LOL.
DeleteI understand the embarrassment about being seen walking away from camp, but I think that frankness can help minimize it.
ReplyDeleteOnce as I (a man) was walking away from camp, I saw a young woman walking the same direction. "Private errand?" I asked. "Well, yes," she answered. "Me also," I said. "So maybe we should go in opposite ways." And we did.
We came back to camp at about the same time, and saw each other again. "Feel better?" she asked. "Yes, and you?" "Much better!" At which we both laughed a little.
For sure, openness and frankness should help considerably to reduce embarrassment. However, that's just the problem. We hate to be open about it. We only cheat ourselves, thinking that we can keep it private. But we all understand what is going on, and everyone does it!
DeleteFor sure, frankness and openness should help a lot. However, that's just the problem. Most of us hate to be open about these things. We keep silent about it, we sneak away, hoping not to be observed. We just cheat ourselves. All others understand, and everyone else does it too!!
DeleteSome people manage to be quite open! Some year back I went for a pilgrims' hike with a quite large group. Just by coincidence, I walked and talked much with a woman, much older than me (possibly around 70, could have been my grandmother!). She was indirectly frank about these matters. She would typically say: "I have to spend a few minutes alone in the bushes." Or: "Please, excuse me, I have to be a bit alone."
DeleteOnce she showed up in the bushes just as I was squatting. I tried to smile and say excuse. She smiled and said: "Oh sorry, I didn't know it was occupied." When we a few minutes later met on the trail again, I excused myself for what she had experienced. She just smiled and said like: "Don't bother, we all do, don't we!"
Good story! Reminds me of my new post about thunderboxes above.
DeleteI have only one experience with a thunderbox. Some years back the management team of our company took part in an outdoor teambuilding event lasting almost a week. The only toilet option was a non-shielded thunderbox among the trees. The first morning when walking up there I found it occupied. One of the men in our team was just about to finish his duty there, bending forward wiping his butt. A very gross sight I must say. There and then I decided not ever to use such a thing. I almost die just by the thought of anyone seeing me in that situation, no matter how normal it is. Therefore, every morning I rather lurked well away from the camp site and found shelter in the bushes where I could get the necessary things done. That is also my sole experience with outdoor toileting.
DeleteUgh, sorry you had to see that. Gross indeed, but the poor guy was only doing what he had to. I also participated in a company retreat similar to what you describe. We had gone skiing during the day, and were camping in a snowy area. In the evening we had a party, lots of good food and drink, and all that food had to go somewhere, so I excused myself to the thunderbox. I came across a young woman from my branch who had been similarly affected by the meal! She didnt see me, but we were far to the north so it was still light out and I could see her clearly. I remember how pink her bottom was, I guess because of the cold. I feel bad for accidentally intruding on her privacy, but, well... she wasn't bad looking.
DeleteI have seen adult men going to toilet outside three times. The first time was during a camping trip with my best friend and her family. No toilet there and we had to go in the bushes. One morning I woke up early and decided to go pooping before the others were up. Then I walked directly in on a van tourist whom I did not know at all. He was squatting with trousers down. He just looked so embarrassed when I came. The second time was at the same trip when spotting the father of my friend taking a dump. Luckily he did not observe me before I succeeded to go another way. The third time was some months back when I saw some amateur fishers at a river bank. Walking some 100 meters farther I saw one of them just about to wipe his back after taking care of his duty. I said excuse and smiled when passing him. He tried to pull trousers up saying sorry. Poor guy I thought. Luckily I did not know him. I have pooped outside several times myself, but I do not think I have ever been observed. I am a girl scout and goes hiking very often and I know that it often just has to be done the primitive way.
DeleteI live in the northern part of Sweden quite close to a popular river for fishing Baltic salmon. Where I go fishing there are no facilities around. If needing a toilet it all has to be done somewhere in the surrounding woods. I often go fishing in the early morning and that means I quite often also has to poop outdoor. It is not a pleasant situation, but sometimes it just has to be done.
DeleteThank You and that i have a swell supply: How Much Is Home Renovation home improvement near me
ReplyDeleteOne other tip: both for pooping and for ladies peeing, do not pull your pants all the way down to your ankles, as they will be "in the way" of where your waste lands. Instead, pull your pants just past your hips but no farther, then squat very low with your bottom resting on your heels, That way, there is a clear line from your bottom or privates to the ground between your feet, which is where your waste will land (you should have dug a hole there if it's number 2).
ReplyDeleteNice advice from Anna. Just as I do it myself. In addition, the bum then is not so much exposed to potental people passing by! Once my husband was appraoched and spoken to by an unknown woman when he was squatting like that. When she discovered that he was pooping, she said sorry and told that she thought he was squatting to pick mushrooms!!
Delete