It's sad but it's true: there are a lot more men out backpacking than women. This bums me out, and if one of those reluctant girls is your significant other I'll bet it bums you out too.
If you are trying to get your girl out on the trail with you for the first time, or after some less than stellar experiences, here's a formula to try:
- Blow her away with the benefits,
- Know and overcome common barriers,
- Mind the weather & season,
- Choose an appropriate level of difficulty.
The Benefits
People who don't camp (well) think that camping is uncomfortable, boring, dirty, and buggy. They can't see the benefits that camping has to offer. Play up these benefits to your girl, using your knowledge of her interests to tailor your sales pitch and destination choice.
- It's breathtakingly beautiful. So you like the view of the sunset while you're driving your SUV down the highway? How about as it sets over mountains with no other humans in sight? How about the sun rise reflecting off an alpine lake as viewed from the door of your tent? How about a hillside alive with wildflowers? How about waking up to nothing but the sound of song birds? The views from spots where you'll make dinner or pitch a tent will blow away those at any restaurant or hotel you could drive to.
- It's empowering. Carrying everything you need in one little backpack, feeding and watering yourself, and surviving the night in a tent and sleeping bag makes you feel alive and powerful.
- It's a unique experience. When you look back on your year, a camping trip to a beautiful location is likely to be one of your most memorable experiences. It standards out from all the plugged-in days we spend in civilization. And even if it's not the highlight of your year, when your co-worker inevitably asks, "what did you get up to last weekend," at least you'll have something interesting to share.
- It's thrifty. When you backpack you can go on a mini vacation every single weekend and hardly spend a dime. Instead of saving up for one big vacation every year, you can get away whenever you want to and still take that trip to the Bahamas.
- It's good exercise. 'Nuff said.
- It will make her the best girlfriend/wife around. Positive reinforcement is a key ingredient for enjoying any new activity. When you're out there make sure to tell her how cute she looks in her hiking boots, what a badass she was for hiking all that way, and how much more you enjoyed the trip because she was there to enjoy it with you.
The Barriers
I ran a survey and had over 100 women respond with the top reason they aren't interested in camping. The big winners were (in order):
- No toilets
- No showers
- Being uncomfortable (sleeping pads, too cold, no AC, etc)
- Bugs
Toilet Access
You know how I'm always talking about doing your business in the woods? There's a good reason. It's the #1 anxiety that stops women (and probably men) from enjoying the backcountry. I suggest a two pronged approach. Choose a destination that includes an outhouse and have your girl read up on how to pee in the woods. This way she'll have options. Bring plenty of toilet paper.
Shower Access
When I first started camping I thought it was totally gross to start my day without hopping in the shower. I get it...but I've gotten over it. Here's what to do:
- Camp along side a clean lake. Not only will this make for a beautiful site and an easy access point for water, but you two can go for a quick dip in the evening or morning to freshen up. Be mindful that a brackish or inaccessible lake won't help! High alpine lakes are usually ideal (although cold as heck).
- Bring wet naps. A quick wet nap "shower" in the tent can leave you feeling fresh enough to start the day.
- Wear marino wool. One of the things that alleviates that unwashed feeling for me is wearing the right fabrics. Not only does marino wool not get stinky after a day of hiking, but it also feels good against your unwashed skin, unlike synthetic athletic fabrics. A gift of a cute marino base layer could help convince her.
Comfort
Take one for the team in support of your larger goal.
- Carry more of the weight.
- Let her use the better gear. Do you have one good air bed and one crappy old one? Give her the good one. If she decides she likes camping she'll get her own gear soon.
- Keep her warm. Women get cold a lot more easily than men, especially while sleeping. Bring a down jacket for cuddling around the campfire; down booties or an extra blanket to keep her feet warm in her sleeping bag; a warmer sleeping bag than you would choose for yourself; delicious hot drinks.
- Pack earplugs for a better night's sleep.
- Choose an appropriate season based on your local area. In the Pac North West that means summer. Where you live that may mean a cooler season to avoid baking to death. See "Season & Weather" below.
Bugs
The best thing you can do about bugs is choose a season (depends on your location, but September is great in my area) or location that minimizes them (oceanside is great for that). If that's not an option for you deet up, make sure you are using a fully enclosed tent rather than a tarp, have her bring a jacket and long pants and a simple bug head net, just in case. You can always hangout inside the tent playing cards during dusk and come back out after the bugs have gone to bed.
Season & Weather
Bad weather is the easiest way to turn an otherwise fantastic trip into a torturous slog. Your first trip should be planned for the ideal time of year - appropriate heat level (not too hot or cold), fewer bugs, low chance of rain, higher levels of beauty (think waterfalls, wildflowers, lush landscapes, etc). This may mean waiting for a few months before heading out. Patience is key. Don't hesitate to take a rain check if you have a poor weather report on your intended departure date.
If you've been doing this for a while your idea trip probably looks like bagging peaks, hiking from dawn until dusk, 7 day loops, ultralight gear, etc. Forget that stuff. Plan something with your partner in mind. You first trip should:
- Go for 2 days, 1 night. For most newbies, one morning without a shower is all they can fathom. Leave her wanting more.
- Hike ~5 miles. This will have you hiking for 2-3 hours. If you get to the end of 5 miles and are still enjoying yourselves, you can drop you packs and keep day hiking.
- Not straight uphill. Here in Vancouver many of the popular short "city" hikes are just 1 hour uphill slogs (I'm looking at you, Grouse Grind) leaving many people thinking that this is normal hiking. Choose a trail that doesn't shoot relentlessly up so you can enjoy the stroll.
- Go slow. You've only got 5 miles to go. Stop and smell the wildflowers. Take pictures. Pause for licorice. Look up and enjoy the beauty all around you.
- Choose beauty. Don't choose a spot for the achievement points, choose one that melds beauty with conveniences. A beautiful lake or river, a good view, and allowing camp fires will go a long way.
- Bring diversions. When you are only hiking 5 miles you may end up with a lot more time to kill in camp than you're accustomed to. Plan to have something to do. You can make cocktails and hangout lakeside, play cards or Pass the Pigs, or do some reading. Don't just sit around letting the mosquitos bite.
If things go well, there will always be next trip to increase the intensity.
A note about car camping
Some people might suggest that you should start with car camping and use that as a stepping stone to move to backpacking. Personally, I suggest the opposite. For me, car camping reinforces many of the things that I don't like about camping (dirty bathrooms, bugs, going to bed feeling dirty, sleeping on the ground) without offering any of the key benefits that make backpacking worthwhile (feeling like I am living inside a postcard, solitude, achievement). If I'd started off with car camping I may have been scared off entirely!
I have read your text above with great interest. I also agree with you on the core message, especially that it is often the toilet issue that is the (realized or unrealized) obstacle for many to really enjoy outdoor life. I also think that men are no better than women, especially when it comes to "#2". In my situation it was my boy friend who was the hesitating part! I was used to outdoor life from my childhood. My parents took me out camping and I also was a girl scout for many years, giving me lots of experience with tackling bugs, preparing food, washing in a creek and not least finding places to go when needing to relieve myself. When I for the first time suggested for my boy friend to go hiking, he did not directly deny it, but he was reluctant. But finally he joined me and two of my friends for a one week canoe trip. After some days (four?) I saw that he was not feeling well. I had observed him farting a lot and I therefore asked him if he was constipated. He then admitted that he had not opened his bowels for the whole trip. He was surprised to hear that I had done it every day even though we had been far away from any toilets. I also said that I was pretty sure that both my friends had done it regularly too. I think he had never thought about the possibility for adults to squat in the bushes to poop! And yes, he managed to get it done. But still some years and lots of hikes later, I think he perceives it extremely embarrassing. Perhaps men really are more shy than women about such issues?
ReplyDeleteCertainly men can be shy about this sort of thing too! Love your story!
DeleteFor sure I think that many men are even more embarrassed about toilet matters than women. The phrase "to be caught with your pants down" alludes to the vulnerability felt in such situations, not least by men who do not have to squat for peeing! My husband and I have been eager hikers for decades, since we were young. I have never ever heard him say anything about pooping. But peeing, not problem at all. But for sure he also poops. I know his "modus operandi". He just disappears without saying a word. Coming back after five minutes, still without saying a word. Then I know that he has been taking care of business with Mother Earth. If I try to make a joke or ask about it, I get no response. Toilet issues are just too embarrassing for him. But in general for example nudity is no big issue. He may take a skinny dip without problems even when together with friends.
DeleteAmusing! My husband is just like. Gets it done saying nothing and if I ask he briefly says that he has been negotiating taxes with Mother Earth! To me it is not a problematic issue at all. I became used to it as a young girl when my mother took me on hikes. Thereafter I was a girl scout for years and went on lots of hikes where we had to go to toilet in the woods. Why bother? All normal persons have to do it when staying outdoor for some days.
DeleteHi, hi! I really don't understand men. Peeing along the trail seems to be no problem. You may see men just turning the back to the trail, pulling out their little buddy and letting loose. But what then about pooping? Even my husband, who is very well used to camping and outdoor life, when needing to take a dump he becomes silent, tries to put some toilet paper unseen in the pocket and finds a moment when he imperceptibly disappears. Then, less than a quarter of an hour later, he reappears just as unnoticed as he went away. I know what he has been doing, everybody who can think, knows it.
DeleteAll men I know use this strategy. My brother, my father, my brother-in-law, colleagues, hiking friends... I observed it already as a child, for example in our scouting group. Peeing, no problem to be seen, pooping, top secret.
I do not think it has anything to do with nudity. Most men I know are not afraid of showing their buttocks, for example when bathing. Still pooping appears to be a taboo among men. Squatting reminding about something childish or female? Peeing, though, signalize masculinity? Well, just a theory. Till the theory eventually becomes refuted or confirmed, I continue smiling when I observe the predictable pattern among men in need of relieving themselves. When I occasionally walk by a poor guy not being able to hide himself from my eyes (usually on my way to poop myself!) and I see the despair in his faces I certainly try to show some serious compassion. But I should rather like to laugh out loud and wave and shout out: hi, man, nice to see that men and woman are equal!
I think that shyness in relation to going to toilet outdoor is much more than a gender challenge. At least it also has to do with experience and perhaps age. I am often guiding senior citizens for day tips in the woods, sometimes at places where we will not find any toilets along the trail for 10-12 hours.
DeleteTypically some of the participants may ask where to find a toilet. When I answer that there will be no toilet for the next xx hours, and if necessary they must go in the woods, the reactions differs considerably. Most of them become a bit surprised, but when I hand over some toilet paper they reply with a little smile that it'll be OK. Then I see them disappear alone into the woods. If I later ask OK? They tend to answer like yes, I managed to fix it. A few of them get a bit upset, feeling it even a bit degrading or humiliating. But when the urge is strong, they manage too.
Then some directly may ask for help. For example a lady, around 80 years old. She asked me about the toilets and I answered that the only option were the bushes. Oh, I was fearing that, she replied. She accepted the toilet paper with a smile. I noticed that she did not go away, but went restlessly around the resting area. Any trouble I asked. Well, I dare not to go into the forest alone. After 2 seconds pause she added, may I ask you to follow?
There we went off, the decent old lady and the young male guide. On our way, she asked if I could point out an appropriate spot, because she "was not used to this". Down a slope we found some bushes. She went behind while I was waiting on the other side. Afterwards, she told that she had felt the situation terrible and embarrassing. I really didn't know how to do it, she said, but I had heard that hikers often go in the bushes. Therefore I asked you for help, she said. Oh, yeah, I have done it lots of times, I said and added that I really also had done it at the beginning of the break. Oh, that was why I could not find you when I first began looking for you, she said with a huge smile. Some days later I got two bottles of wine from her, with these words: Thanks for helping we with the unmentionable.
About a year later I met her at a meeting in the local mountaineering society. She told that she had become a regular member of a hiking group for seniors. With a smile she said that she was no novice any more.
My co-guide once had a man in the group who was becoming slightly demented. She had to explain in great detail how to do it. When she said pull trousers down and squat, he immediately commented "Just like a child?" Yes, exactly, she said and he then smiled and managed by himself. He went into the woods and she was a bit afraid that he could get lost, but luckily she saw him pull down and squat behind a roadside bush. When coming back he commented that he probably wrongly had used the ladies room. Why, my co-guide asked. There was a lady going there too, he said. In that moment my co-guide became aware of one of the female particpants also squatting in there. She said, don't bother, it'll be fine and they both smiled. The lady never commented it. She probably had not spotted him at all.
I have read the comment above on the man with dementia with great interest. I work as a nurse in a nursing home ward and day care center for persons with dementia that otherwise are physically fit. This is in the countryside and many of those who stay with us are used to outdoor life. Many of the men have been hunting, and the women are used to picking berries and mushrooms in the woods.
DeleteSeveral of us who work there are also active outdoors in our spare time. We have a small bus at our disposal. When the weather permits, we are happy to take a group with us on day trips in the local area. Sometimes to fish or pick berries, other times just to go for a walk.
Even if the people we take on trips are in good physical shape, they often need help for everyday activities. When someone needs to go to the toilet, for example, we have to help many people find a suitable place. Some people occasionally have to be helped down with their trousers. Most people manage to squat down and arrange the rest themselves.
But we are afraid that they will go away, so we must always try to keep an eye on them. We try to do this as gently as possible, preferably standing at a little distance, and when we see that they have finished, we follow them back to the group. Many of the assistants in our department are young women around 20 years old, and it requires not only politeness, but also knowledge when you as a girl at 18 has to accompany an elderly man to poop in the forest!
When we are out on a trip, we are often one nurse, two assistants and five or six elderly people. We always have to be careful to know where everyone is, so when someone who can manage himself/herself takes the toilet roll and goes to pee or poo, we always have to be careful. Some, especially the men, often go a little far into the forest, and then one of the assistants often has to follow at some distance. Most of us find this a difficult task. It feels both untimely and indecent to "spy" on older gentlemen or ladies in such situations. But if we don't, we often have to run around the forest looking for someone who can't find their way back on their own. One of the adult assistants (60 years old) says that when she follows someone like this, she herself usually squats at a little distance because then it doesn't feel so rude. The younger assistants don't think so!
When we are on trips in places where it is not just us, we are careful to help the elderly to find hiding places where they can squat without being seen by strangers. Many of the elderly become so busy doing the necessary things that they do not notice that there may be other people around. Once, for example, one of the older women experienced some boy scouts passing by while she was sitting with her bottom bare. The assistant who was there discovered it too late. The boys were probably a little surprised and started laughing. The elderly lady found the whole thing terrible. It was a long time before she wanted to go out on a trip again. For many days she repeated: "and guess what, they came just as I was pooping".
This topic is something we who work there constantly talk about. We all agree that the elderly benefit from getting outside. The relatives think so too. When you are outdoors for a whole day, it is inevitable that many people will have to pee or poop. When you're mentally impaired, you can't hold yourself up very well either, and then it often has to be done out in the open. Fortunately, our assistants are very good and this means that we rarely experience that any of the older people feel that it is embarrassing or difficult.
But as mentioned earlier, most of our patients have themselves been keen outdoorsmen. They are simply used to crouching in the bushes when they need to go to the toilet.
It was indeed interesting to read the contribution above. Dementia care really needs qualified personnel that are able to respect integrity and decency. But perhaps we all have something to learn from this? Respect for integrity and decency also has to be applied in situations where other than demented persons are involved. As stated above, they are a bit lucky because they have attendants who care and cater for them. What about the decent, mature English lady that feels the urge when visiting an archaeological site in Italy and finds no toilet? Not necessarily she finds it easy to ask someone to watch over her when she has to go behind a bush. Neither does the tough, young Dutch guy who must to turn to the shrubs when surfing due to acute natural needs. But don't believe that they find it amusing if anyone comes by when they are exposing their white asses to the nature. Be sure, they don't do it for fun. They do it because there are no other options. I know, because last summer I was the tough guy, being discovered by two girls who began laughing when they spotted me in a very vulnerable moment. And I met the beautiful and stylish English grandmother and saw her tearful face when I came and involuntarily disclosed her when she was just about to finish her duty. Normal activities? For sure, but not normal with spectators. Decency and respect call!
DeleteNeither for the young, nor the seniors, going to toilet is a graceful activity, and in particular not when you have to do it outdoor. For sure the need for privacy should be respected and decency calls, as mentioned above.
DeleteMostly it goes well, but last summer we had an awkward experience. My wife and I went for a day hike in the Scottish mountains. Out there my wife felt the urge to open her bowels. With no toilet around she had to get it done outside. While I was waiting on the path, she took the toilet roll and went away over to some big stones where she could get it done. But while she was squatting a small group of boy scouts showed up from nowhere, passing just behind her. They were waving and laughing to her. I saw them from the path but too late to warn her. I felt pity for her and wondered how she felt when she returned. However, she was smiling of it all, just saying that she the sight of a granny going hopefully did not hurt them.
Another time I was in the unlucky position. One of my previous colleagues came by when I had to go in the bushes during a day trip in the woods for retired persons from our company. She smiled and commented oh, it is occupied, before she disappeared. Afterwards I excused myself for what she had seen. She replied that there were no reason to excuse, she was out there searching for a spot to relieve herself!
Lessons learned? Decency, privacy and respect shall be maintained, but when facing embarrassing situations a smile is better than ignorance. A little humor does not hurt, even in such situations. My sister in law, who still is an outdoor enthusiast even at almost 80 years, says that she shall continue hiking as long as she can squat!
Last years I have been guiding several groups hiking in the mountains and woods. Many of them have been groups of senior citizens going for day hikes. Quite many of the participants are unexperienced hikers, even though they are physically and mentally very fit. Almost every time I have to give some of them advice on how to go to toilet in the outside. Surprisingly many seem to be unaware about the toilet situation, in spite of the fact that it is mentioned on the list of equipment that they should bring some toilet paper in their backpack.
DeleteMy experience is that men is not at all more relaxed about this than women. A typical conversation may run like this (often before lunch time!): "How long will it take to the next toilet?" "Well, no toilet before back at the parking lot at 7pm." "Oh, gosh!" "If you need toilet paper, you can get from me." "No, no". Then, typically one hour or so later, the same person, often a man, comes back: "Well, I think I have to ask you for some paper." "Sure, here you have." "But, where do you think I can go?" "Oh, possibly over there down the slope, you'll find some stones to hide behind?" With an embarrassing smile "Thanks" and then the unlucky guy walks away. Five minutes later coming back with the roll of paper: "Thanks so much." "Went ok?" "Yes, it was just necessary." "Yes, I know, better to get it done when urge appears than to wait." Then another embarrassing smile.
Occasionally, though not often, someone need some more detailed advice. "Behind the stones? Well, I need to ... you know ... what to do with ... well, the waste?" "I suggest that you just cover it with some stones!" (No use in trying to teach digging a hole!) Or: "Do I sit on a stone?" "Well, perhaps squat?" "Oh, just like a child?"
I have read the stories about helping demented people with great interest. I am working in an activity center for the elderly. Many of our clients are demented to some or another degree, but many of them still are physically very well fit. We very frequently try to take our clients for walks etc, visiting cultural events, markets and during summer even for day hikes in the mountains or woods for those who seem to like it.
DeleteWhen graduating from nursing school five years ago, I felt very competent when assisting patients with their "elimination" (aka "going to toilet"). But that were patients in hospital and nursing homes.
Be sure that the need for "elimination" does not disappear when hiking!! On the contrary, physical activity stimulates the urge! And when the urge appears, we often are at sites without access to an ordinary toilet. Many of our clients use napkins. But home at the center we try to encourage them to speak up when the need arises, so we can help them.
At nursing school we were never taught how to help a decent but demented woman to pee in the bushes or a kind but demented man to open his bowels in the wilderness. Some of my colleagues used to claim that the best is to tell them to do it in the napkins. But after vivid discussions among the colleagues, we have for some years now tried to help them to do just like other hikers. We came to the conclusion that it probably was more degrading for them to do it in the napkins than to be helped to do it "the normal way". I think the resistance among the personnel to help in such pretty awkward situations was a greater barrier, than the resistance among our clients to be helped with their "elimination", even when out in the woods. Being helped in nature does not appear to be more degrading than being helped at home.
But non of us had really been taught how to do it. Some of the staff had for example never been hiking themselves. We have not adopted a fixed procedure, but we often discuss it in the team. We try to do the intervention a limited as possible. Some just need help to find a suitable spot end to be encouraged that it is ok to go outside. Others need help with undressing, supporting, wiping etc. We try to go a bit away just when the client is pooping or peeing. If we have to be present for example to support, we try to be as "invisible" as possible, saying nothing etc.
The relatives of our "hiking" clients are informed about our practice, which we regard as a part of our "normalization strategy". Sometimes we have company by relatives on our outings. My experience is that they prefer some of the staff to help e.g. their parents going to toilet, instead of becoming part of it, which is fully understandable. Sometimes we even need to give advise to relatives who also may need to go to toilet out there. I have seen that many really do not know how to do it. Some also seem to become very surprised when they understand that even the staff need to do it that way. There is no staff toilet either, one of my colleagues once answered a relative who asked to use the staff toilet!!
We haven't received any complaints and we have had no injuries related to this. Not least we have never noticed any negative og frustrated comment from any of our clients. Nobody abstain from taking part in our walks of this reason.
Where I live, disabled elderly persons should never get such possibilities. They are just given a bed and food in a nursing home. They are not offered any activities outside the institution. My parents suffer from dementia. They are both fond of coming out from the nursing home. Therefore I take one or both of them for a trip by car and for a walk in the woods at least once a week. Often I go together with my best friend. Her father is also suffering from dementia. All three of them seem to enjoy these trips.
DeleteIn the week end and when weather is nice, we may stay outside for almost the whole day. Then, inevitably there will rise a need for everyone to visit the toilet. As written by others, people with dementia are not that good at putting the urge off. So when they ask for a toilet, I know that it has to be done in a few minutes. Luckily all three of them are in good physical shape and are able to squat. That makes it all much easier. But they need help with all the rest, not least finding a suitable spot. They have never objected, I guess because they are always helped to the toilet, also at the nursing home.
In the beginning I felt it bad to help my own parents in such private situations, and I should have liked that some of the staff took care of it. But now it is no real challenge any more. After all, it is a normal function, and not least a common part of outdoor life, something that everyone has to be prepared for when outside for the whole day. The challenging and problematic aspects of it to me is fully compensated by noticing the joy they radiate and the expectations they express when they know they shall come out. My friend and I have discussed it several times and found it acceptable
This was a really thought-provoking thread for an older man (>70), still (hopefully) not demented, though. Last month I took part in a day trip for the elderly in the woods. Our guide was a nice and very competent and careful young Chinese woman (<25). She really managed to make it comfortable and pleasant for all of us.
DeleteAt lunch time I got in need of a toilet (#2) and asked her if she knew about any. With a sad expression in her face she told that there would be no toilet before returning to the parking lot in over three hours. If you really need to go, you'll have to go in the nature, she added. I guess she felt pity for me, because she offered me help if necessary. If you want I can help you find a suitable spot, she said.
I was walking with a stick at that time due to rehabilitation after a fracture. Therefore I had to accept her offer, because I need assistanse when walking outside the paths. She supported me over to some bushes. She also had to support me not only when I pulled my trousers down but also when I bent forward so that I should not fall (I am not able to squat). Luckily I managed to wipe myself. It is the first time I as an adult has needed help when pooping.
Sure I was embarrassed and excused me for involving her. She said that I should not bother. She was a registered nurse and had helped lots of people going to toilet, even tough not outside before. With a huge smile she added that as an eager hiker she was used to it herself. At the next break I saw her walking off to the bushes. She noticed that I spotted her and said with a smile that now it was her turn. Minutes later she came back. Then she smiled and winked at me. It made it less embarrassing to know that the person that helped me, had to do the same!
I wonder if there may be generation differences on this issue? My grandmother (born 1947), my mother (born 1975) and I (born 2006) went for a one week camping trip by bike in the mountains. For the whole week we had no access to toilets. We had to pee as well as poop outside. I think peeing was no issue for any of us, but as to pooping we behaved very different. We did never discuss it but I noticed big differences between us. I hate pooping outdoor. I sneak away without saying anything, cover tp in my pocket, hide well and poop in a hole. My mom is more open. She does not bother to cover the paper roll when walking away, but she walks well away, and she poops in a hole. My grandma is quite different. She says that she has to obey the call of nature, picks up the tp and walks over to some bushes or a stone and just hide behind. She neither covers her poop, just leaves it on the ground! (I guess she has never heard about LNT.) My brother (19) and one of his friends joined us for three days. I guess they got chocked by how explicit she was on this issue! It would have been too embarrassing to me even to indicate to any of the two boys that I had to go away to poop. My mom somewhat changed her behavior when the boys were with us. Then she did like me, put the paper in the pocket and more like sneaked away, obviously she did not like the boys to notice. Once I am quite sure, that the friend of my brother coincidentally walked in on my mother pooping. None of them mentioned anything about it afterwards. For the same days a friend of my grandma also joined us. She said like I have to go to the bushes. My brother later told that one morning she had walked in on him squatting. She had smiled and said that she was out there for the same reason. On his way back he had seen her squatting and later seen that she, like grandma, just had left her poo on the ground! Therefore, is it a generation trait? Both of them are very outdoorsy persons, hiking much together and with others too.
DeleteI have just returned from a longer pilgrimage with a larger group of people. We hiked through quite desolate areas, with no access to toilets during the day. If the need arose while we were out along the path, none of us had any other option but to squat outside. This was particularly evident during the morning's first two breaks. If you paid attention, you could see both young and old pulling their trousers down and crouching behind a bush or rock. It wasn't something you talked about, but you simply had to take it with a smile. You quickly realized that you were not the only one. Even the nice "grandpa" with gray hair was observed crouching with his pants at his knees.
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DeleteTo you young people who wonder about older people's relationship to such challenges. I am in a hiking group of seniors. One day a week throughout the summer, we go on a long day trip in the mountains or in the forest, typically starting at 06 and returning at 21.
Everyone has toilet paper in their backpack! Why bring it? Of course, because you often need it. Yes, precisely, to go to the bathroom.
But bathrooms? Well, such are not found everywhere. What do you do then? Grandpa and grandma don't talk about it.
Ugh, what a disgusting thought. But let's just get it straight. Grandfather and grandmother go to the bathroom in the forest, just like the bear and the fox, - and young scouts or tough youngsters on an excursion.
Heh, heh, no, of course not just to pee. Also to poop, yes, really.
Yes, Grandpa likes to do it during his lunch break. Grandma often has to retreat for a few minutes already at the first coffee break.
Ugh, yes, certainly not a pleasant sight. Crouching behind a bush. Seniors with bare bottoms. Fortunately, you mostly manage to hide well. Also, there are rarely younger people where we hike, so they don't have to experience it.
And us seniors, we are all in the same situation. A glimpse of a friend squatting, no one is surprised, that's how it has to be done. A small smile, maybe "oh, sorry". Then you don't talk about it anymore.
I wouldn't be the weekly outings without it, so you just have to accept certain things even if, in isolation, they can be a bit unfamiliar or even unpleasant. And then you certainly don't mention it to children and grandchildren when telling about this week's hike.
They just seem to be proud to have such sporty grandparents. Good thing they don't know more! Or maybe they know, but just can't bear to think about it.
As Christine claims above, I also think there is a difference between the generations. My grandparents seem to be absolutely more relaxed about these things than we are who are younger. They always for example always bring a roll of toilet papier when going for a hike or even for a short picnic trip by bike. In their car they always have toilet paper. I think they look upon it as a very natural matter, which it certainly is too.
DeleteWhen I was in my late teens I was a volunteer helper on a pilgrim's walk for senior citizens. We wandered from early morning to late afternoon in fairly deserted woods and fields. Of course, most of us had to go to the bathroom several times during the day and without an actual toilet to visit, it had to be done between the bushes along the hiking trail. It was certainly not something we talked about. But no one could doubt that it was so. You often couldn't help but notice when someone retreated a little and disappeared between the bushes. And when you had to do it yourself, it happened that you got a glimpse of others who were out doing the same thing. I think that everyone felt it was a bit embarrassing, but in the long run you had to obey your body's demands. After that experience, I have never doubted that when it comes to this, we are all equal, regardless of age and gender.
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ReplyDeleteIn UK we have the Duke of Edinburgh Award which requires that you make an expedition in the wilderness. That was how I learnt to go to toilet outdoor. Often there is no toilet around when you need it, and even when needing to open the bowels you often have to find a suitable spot somewhere in nature. Every group is advised to bring a roll of toilet paper. The first few times I found it somewhat embarrassing to go behind a stone or a bush and just pull down and squat but now I am quite used to it and do not bother any more. Not so nice if anyone comes by or if you walk in on others. But after all, everyone has to do it the same way, not only young persons, even mature experienced hikers have to obey the order of nature.
ReplyDeleteMy first experience of that kind also was at a DofE expedition! I still remember how anxious and embarrassed I was before and how relieved and relaxed I was afterwards. Luckily nobody came when I was going.
DeleteI am not able to remember when I made my first experiences of this kind. I grew up in Sweden in the 1960s. My parents often took us out for camping in the woods and mountains. I can't remember that I ever thought of going to toilet outdoor as a challenge. I neither can recall that I ever had to "learn" how to do it. It was an ordinary part of outdoor life. Everybody did it. And everybody knew how to do it. Without a door to lock I think it was so obvious for all how such things should be done. Just picking up the roll of toilet paper and walk away to find a suitable spot to hide a bit, behind a stone or some bushes. I certainly also became aware that the adults did it. Therefore it was no big issue when I had to manage myself without help from my parents. On scouts' hikes and school outings we did it. I can't remember that anyone made it a problem. But it was kind of an intangible issue. Nobody talked about it. I think it was expected that one should not bring up the topic in a conversation and not mention to others for example if one had observed someone going to toilet out there. This led to some quite silly situations of which I can still remember some. For example I once walked directly in on one of my scout leaders when she was squatting with the shorts at her knees. In spite of passing her closer than 2 meters away we both pretended not seeing each other! Once when out picking berries my grandmother passed me just as close when I was squatting to take a dump. She also pretended not to spot me. Once my mother and I observed a truck driver squatting with a bare bum. When I later told my sister about it, my mother reminded me that the man had sought privacy and we should respect it by not telling others about it. Perhaps things are changing nowadays. Last summer my best friend and I went camping with our grandchildren (preschool-agers). They obviously found it exciting when they discovered that the two grannies out there had to go to toilet "just like kids" as they said. When I was a kid that would not have been a surprise.
DeleteI am among those who have had to "learn" it. But nobody taught me it. I had to learn the "hard" way. Extremely embarrassing. I was type 13 years old. We had been at a scouts' camp for some three days when we went out for a hike in the woods. The portapotties at the camp were so smelly and dirty that I was not able to do more than pee there. When settling down for the evening on the hike I began feeling quite uncomfortable and stuffed in my stomach. Nobody had said anything about toilets and I was too embarrassed to ask about it. But then I heard one of the adult leaders say that he had to go to toilet before walking a tiny path into the woods. I was unexperienced and silly me did not fully understand. I went the same path hoping to find the toilets! But what I found was a man bending forward leaning his elbows on the knees with his shorts lowered. I saw the despairing expression in his eyes. I think we both were extremely uncomfortable with the situation. I managed to say excuse before I went away. When he came back to the tents I went over to him and excused myself again for disturbing. We both were flushing. He seemed to be as embarrassed as I was and said with a stumbling voice like, eh, uhm, I thought that I had managed to hide well, but, well, please try to forgive and forget. Oh, sure I said with a smile. I have never told anyone about the incident. But I have "learnt", how to go to toilet outside, and not least when hiking not to follow people going away into the woods alone. What about my stomach then? Later that afternoon I took som paper in my pocket and went into the woods. I had to realize that the leader really had found the best shelter so I ended up at the same spot. The need was strong and I managed to avoid further trouble with my stomach.
DeleteIn our relationship I used to be the one reluctant to taking a dump in the great outdoors when hiking. Just thinking about squatting behind a bush was horrifying and made me flush. My girl friend has always been relaxed about it. She says she has to go to toilet, picks up the paper roll and disappear in the bushes as the most natural thing (which it also certainly is). She comes from an outdoorsy family and she has been used to outdoor activities for the whole life. Now I do it but still not really familiar with it.
DeleteIsn't it quite common for most of us to be a bit shy about this issue? I have been hiking for a decade now, often in groups with several others. Even when sleeping in tents, staying in the wilderness for many days, the toilet issue is scarcely mentioned. Obviously, we all have to face the challenge, and not merely for peeing! If you are a little observant, you soon understand that when someone is walking alone away from the camp site the purpose is to have some minutes in solitude. Especially in the morning it may be a good idea to be aware of this. Otherwise you may end up walking in on one of your friends squatting with a bare bottom. Not a pleasant situation for any of the two. I know, from embarrassing experiences (yes, plural... several times). Early morning, walking in on the gentle, grey haired man you chatted with the evening before, you'll for sure flush and get quite uncomfortable in the situation. I shall never forget the embarrassing smile of the poor guy squatting and involuntarily exposing the white bum not only to Mother Nature but also to me. Afterwards I excused myself for my intrusiveness. He smiled and answered that he could as well beg his pardon because a young woman should have been spared such a sight, and that he hoped I could forget. Which has not been that easy, because I remember the incident every time I meet him in our local hiking society. Or the opposite, when, as a scouts' leader, one of the boys came around and spotted me in a situation which left no doubt about what I was doing. I still flush a bit when seeing him at meetings. Certainly, I should hope that he has forgotten, but, well, most probably not. It all would have been better if we were able to speak more openly about it.
DeleteI shall never forget my first outdoor toilet experiences. I was 18 years old and just about to start university studies. I was quite active in the work in our local congregation. A group of us decided to take part in a pilgrims' walk for two weeks in the summer vacation. We slept in hostels along the trail, but we were walking from 8am till 7pm. At the hostels there were toilets, but they were very busy and I did not manage to poop there. Along the trail there were no toilets. To me it resulted in becoming very constipated after just three days. I certainly peed in the nature but I was not sure if it was ok to poop. I felt it too embarrassing to ask anyone if it was ok. But at lunch time the fourth day I happened to spot one of the older men in the group squatting with trousers at his knees behind a huge stone. Luckily he did not see me, but I got confirmed that it was ok. I had no toilet paper but I took some pages from my notebook and when the man was finished I went over there and fulfilled the task myself. I still remember how anxious I was that someone should come, but also how good it was to leave the bodily waste collected for four days. For the rest of the two weeks I managed to poop outside regularly every day. I also became aware that several others dit it too. But I never heard anyone mention it with a single word! One of the last days I was walked in on by the same man as I had seen squatting a week earlier. We both smiled and said excuse. I was a bit surprised that I did not become vey embarrassed. Afterwards I think that had to do with the fact that I knew that he also pooped in the woods. What I learnt from this was that one should practice openness about these matters. How much easier it shouldn't it have been if some of the leaders just had said that one will have to go in the woods when necessary? At another pilgrims' walk many years later it was made a bullet point in the written material (translated): You should bring your own supply of toilet paper because along the trail there will be no toilets and you'll have to go in the bushes. Much better to be prepared than to be walking a bit confused with increasing stomach pains from day to day.
DeleteI am 58 years now. I have been an avid hiker for over 40 years. I soon had to realize that the toilet things had to be done also out there and that even "nice girls" cannot avoid it. I still remember how embarrassing I felt it the first times. Walk behind a bush, shorts down, squat with naked bottom, and not least the "rude thing", pooping in nature. However, I got used to it, quite soon too. I understood that everyone else did it. I got glimpses of friends, even male friends, squatting with their buttocks bare. This was before LNT-practice had become widespread, and I spotted turds at many popular hiding spots. No doubt that all of us had the same needs. Nobody talked about it, but everyone just understood and accepted it as a very private issue. Nowadays. luckily I feel it is possible to be more open on this. I am a scout leader. When taking the newbies out for their first hike, I try to convince them that they have to tick to their daily routines, and that all of us do it, even me as an adult. I try to underline that it is not a childish thing, just a common human duty for all of us.
DeleteMy gf. and I are hiking a lot. In our relationship it is me that dislike going to toilet in the outdoors. She does not seem to bother. She just takes the paper roll and heads for the bushes without any visible fear, shame or embarrassment. When I have challenged her on the issue, she does not see the problem. She is a physiotherapist very concerned about pelvic health and says it is good for the health to do it as soon as the urge appears. If a man comes by, I have asked her. So what, she replies, men must just accept that even women poop.
DeleteI agree with your girlfriend. There is really no reason to worry about such trifles. Out in the open there is no lockable door, but the natural needs present themselves nonetheless. You should not have been outdoors that much before you have experienced it yourself. Even if you don't talk about it, we've probably all seen that others have such needs! I still remember the first time I saw someone going to the bathroom outdoors. I was a young Girl Scout. We were on a hike and one early morning I saw one of the male leaders squatting with his trousers down. I found it quite embarrassing, even though he didn't see me, but also a bit illegal, exciting. In any case, I learned that you don't die from seeing a white ass among the trees of the forest. This is how we are created and we just have to come to terms with it. As an avid outdoorswoman and scout leader, I probably just have to accept that someone has also seen my private bum over the years, and that it is actually quite a trivial incident.
DeleteHello! There are many recognizable situations described here. I am a teacher, but in my free time, especially in summer, I am also often a tour guide for a local hiking society. We try to stimulate interest in holiday and hiking life in the local forests and mountains and organize several trips every year, both day trips and longer trips, for beginners in different age groups. In recent years, we have clearly noticed an increased interest in such trips among the elderly, probably because there is now a growing group of healthy seniors here.
DeleteBefore we go out on a trip, we always have a course evening where we go through what you should know before you go on a trip. Then I always bring up the question of how to go to the bathroom. In the groups for young people, someone often asks about it, while in the groups for older people, no one ever mentions it until I bring it up. There are also never any follow-up questions afterwards - not until we have got out on our trip!!
Then someone always comes a little cautiously and almost whispering: "Unfortunately (as if it was an abnormality!), I think I will need a toilet soon." Many have also not brought toilet paper in their rucksack, despite the fact that it is on the equipment list and that I always bring it up at the preparation meeting. Maybe they think that toilet needs are not something that affects them? So then it's up to me to give them some toilet paper and in a decent, gentle and friendly way say "Sorry, but there's no toilet here, so you'll have to hide behind some bushes to get it done there." Some need more detailed advice, and not least help to find a suitable place. It seems that many people need some kind of "permission" from me to do something that they intuitively perceive as "forbidden". But in any case, most people seem happy and smiling afterwards. Some people probably think it's quite embarrassing and come and sort of apologize to me afterwards. Then I just smile and say: "Nothing to worry about" and then I whisper in their ear: "you are not the only one.... you should know that I also often do it myself." Then there will only be smiles left. Once there was an elderly man whose face lit up and said: "Oh really! That was good to hear. This was my first time!"
The young people also think it's a bit embarrassing, but there it's easier to joke about it and not least to emphasize that we adults also have to squat behind a bush to pee or poo. My colleague and I who regularly take children and youths for hikes have decided to be open about it when we do it ourselves, just to normalize it. She and I just say like: "I have to leave you some minutes cause I must go to toilet." We have found that better than just sneaking away without saying anything. When they experience that two middle aged women have to pee an poop we think the young people also feel it more easy to go away to take care of their needs.
So both for old and young and everyone in between, it's about practicing normalizing what is, after all, one of the most normal things in human life. For the young, it is also about avoiding teasing someone if you happen to see them going to the toilet outdoors.
When it comes to this with propriety, I use to say that when you come across someone in their private moment, you simply say sorry with a smile and withdraw. In any case, I myself think that it is more unpleasant if someone sees me in such a situation, but pretends that they have not seen. Then, really, I feel like I'm doing something illegal and indecent! I usually end my little course talk about this with: "We all do it! Yes, me too! Find a hiding place, pants down, squat down - and enjoy that the body works today too! Accept - Normalize - SMILE!"
I think it is very important that the adults talk abot this when taking young persons on hikes. Else we don't know how to do it. Last summer I was with my scouting group hiking and canoeing in Sweden. We then had to pee and poop in the woods. Nobody said how we should do it. We did not talk abot it. Peeing was easy, not pooping. But luckily one morning I saw one of the adult leaders when she pooped in the woods. She didn't see me. I had never seen anyone pooping outdoor before so I didn't know how to do it. But now I saw how she did it.
DeleteIf someone had told how to do it, it had not been so shameful either. One of my friends told me one day that she had pains in the stomach. I asked if she had pooped, but she had not done that for almost one week cause she had not seen a toilet. I told her abot pooping in the woods. Later that day she came over to me and said that the pains were gone because she had pooped. Later she also told me that she had told one of the others how to poop in the woods too. If we talk abot it, it is not so shameful as if we don't talk abot it. But when you have not done it before it is not easy to know how to do it. And not necessary to feel shameful when you know how to do it and know that also the adult leader do.
Pooping outside has never been a problem to me. I have done it since I was a child. As a teenager I often spent some summer weeks with my uncle and aunt in Sweden. My aunt was an outdoor enthusiast and we often went for hikes in the woods, sometimes also staying overnight in a tent, or just out for the day, picking mushroom, berres etc.
DeleteGoing to toilet in the outdoors never was made a particular issue. It was just something that had to be done. My aunt seemed to have kind of a fixed routine, going after the first coffee break or at lunch time. She was totally open about it, just said that she had to go to the toilet, took the roll of toilet paper and went away to find a suitable spot. Eventually I applied the same procedure as the most natural thing (as it certainly also is). Sometimes we were accompanied by some of her friends. They seemed to behave like. Nobody seemed to regard it as a problem.
I hardly dare to tell you how I "learned" to poop outdoors. Today a bit embarrassing to think back on. I was 17 years old and was with a group of young people and adults from our congregation on a walk over several days for pilgrims. We mostly walked in the forest and in the mountains, without access to any toilet. The need to poop never showed up, but I got more and more "stuffed" in my stomach as the days went by.
DeleteI think it was only on the fourth day that I felt that now I really had to poop. But I had no idea where or how to do it. Somewhat randomly, I noticed during a break that one of the older men tore off some paper towels and put them in his pocket and eventually walked alone into the forest. I understood of course that he was going to the bathroom, and I thought that now I just had to figure out how to do it. I followed, without him seeing me. A few hundred meters into the forest he stopped and looked around before pulling down his trousers and crouching down. It was barely a minute before he wiped his bum and was done. OK, I thought. It was that simple!
Back in the group I also had some paper torn off and went back into the forest and got to squat. I felt a little embarrassed, but thought that if a grown man could do it so easily, I guess I could too. And it went well. I had both learned and experienced how such matters could be done. No one in the group talked about it, but as the days went by, I understood that "everyone" did it that way. In every break, there was at least someone who went alone to the forest. At least for the remaining 10-12 days of the hike it was no longer a problem for me.
Early Sunday morning camping at a popular surfing beach at the Atlantic ocean. You just have to leave embarrassment behind in the van, pick up the toilet paper and head for the backbushes.
DeleteIf you ever thought that you were the only one needing to drop a deuce in the morning, you soon will learn. The mature German woman also does. She is unsuccessfully trying to hide her white bottom behind some bush over there, as also is her husband some 20 meters farther away. Nice to know I think, when pulling shorts down and squat. Just when about to wipe the young British student appears. She smiles and says excuse before disappearing. Disappearing? No, that is not possible back there. On my returning to the van I can see that she was not a spy, just another human in need of emptying the guts. Then it is my turn to say excuse, and we both smile a bit.
Back at the parking lot we behave as nothing has happened, just learnt that we all poop, a Belgian man, two German matures, a young British student, and probably also the rest of the camper too.
Similar stories could be told from the rest of the world, I guess. Just now wildcamping in Northern Norway. Probably not the same person, but the mature German woman with the white bottom was also observed here this morning!! Scarcely any place to hide, but the nature still demands its toll for all of us.
DeleteHeh, heh. Come to Sweden's vast forests and mountains these days. You will find campers scattered around. Some in tents, many in camper vans. Some people don't have a toilet in their van. Many have it. But still!
DeleteA squatting German woman? Of course. But also her husband. And not only that, the young Dutch couple in their tiny VW Polo, camping in a tent. How about the two Swedish female students on a camping trip by bike? Or the group of Lithuanian youngsters who are on a Scandinavian tour? Even the elderly French couple with a modern motorhome are both observed squatting with bare bottoms between the trees of the forest, probably to avoid filling up the toilet tank.
And soon the berry pickers will come. Both the locals, who are usually middle-aged and older women, and the professionals, who are often hired from the Baltic states or Asia. They also have to go to the bathroom during an all-too-long working day. Bathroom, no there is no such thing. It's behind a bush. Pull your pants down, squat down and say a silent prayer that no one else comes by.
But it happens. Especially now when the forests are overpopulated. Nobody seems to care. Everyone understands and everyone has some compassion. The cute bicycle woman who appeared as I squatted with my pants around my knees this morning was a complete stranger to me. Fortunately, she smiled widely. And last but not least, she even had a toilet roll in her hand, so I reckon she understood the challenge.
He, he. And now the season for berry picking and mushroom collecting has come. The forests are visited by amounts of people. Every remote nook is sought out and scrutinized. In the week ends typically families take a day out there, as w did today, bringing food and beverages in their lunch basket. Often starting before 8am and ending 12 hours later.
DeleteA practical consequence of such a behavior is that somebody, in fact very many, during the day get the need to visiting a toilet (which seldom can be found!) From my childhood I still remember that my mom always had toilet paper in the lunch basket, now when I am 18 years, I prefer to take some paper in my pocket (just in case) so I don't need to ask my mother for it!
And today I had to use it. After lunch walking well away from the others and found a suitable spot to squat. Nice to get it done and especially nice since nobody came by!
I recognize the situations described above from the wildcamping site by the Atlantic Ocean (Portugal?) Quite like my own experiences a few weeks back. Of course, we all have to poo once in a while, and when you don't have a campervan with a toilet, there may be no other option than to squat behind a bush. For many, the morning is often the time of day when the need arises. When many people are gathered in the same place, and there is no door to close, it is not surprising that the situation does not remain as private as desired.
DeleteYou simply have to try to take it all in with a smile. And especially when you get it all at a distance in time, you just have to let it remain funny holiday memories. You certainly remember the Dutch mature woman and her white thighs, and not to mention the distressed face (and the tiny bum!) of the young French sporty cycling woman who tried in vain to pull up her cycling shorts when you happened to pass by. Sure enough, she had also pooped "au naturel".
Perhaps not quite so pleasant to remember when you yourself were "caught with your pants down" by the Irish girl in the neighboring tent. I would obviously like to avoid it, but I hope that she too can smile a little at it and have it as a comical holiday memory, now a few weeks later. Fortunately, she was out there for the same purpose. She couldn't hide that she had the toilet roll in her hand, which she was holding behind her back!
So there we lived together for a few days and considered this strictly secret, although we all did and everyone knew "everything" about it.
Yes, that is the hard reality for (almost) everyone lurking there in the backbushes in the early morning. We are looking for a place to drop a deuce. And we mostly trust in eachother. Confidentially is to be maintained.
DeleteIt's something people have always done, so it's not really that difficult, is it? One finds a suitable place, in accordance with local and cultural customs.
DeleteNowadays, it most often happens in a toilet, for example at home and at work. At other times, it is crystal clear that it must be done on nature's terms, for example when you are hiking in the mountains.
Sometimes the circumstances require a bit of forethought and improvisation, for example when you are on a bike ride in the countryside and understand that you will not reach a toilet in time. If you are very lucky, you pass a toilet along the way.
And if that doesn't happen, many of us have probably, with some embarrassment, simply had to go behind a bush and pull our pants down. One avoids mentioning it. But most of us have probably seen not only children, but also grown women and men squatting with their bottoms bare between rocks or bushes, and thought it was a good thing it wasn't me this time.
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ReplyDeleteJust returned back to Netherlands after 8 weeks camping in the Nordic region. Mostly we pitched our tents somewhere in the wilderness. As a consequence we often had no access to any toilet. Without a bathroom to visit, we often had to search for solitude behind a bush or a stone.
ReplyDeleteWe were some mature couples travelling together. Interestingly, the lack of toilets and the toilet practice "enforced" upon us, never were brought up as an issue in our conversations. However, kind of a common practice was early established. When in need, saying nothing, just disappearing into the surrounding nature, with a bunch of toilet paper in the pocket. It appeared to be an unwritten rule not to go away into the terrain when another of the group was missing. When the one missing was returning, it was free for the next one to go!
This serious comedy was practiced for two months!! Four mature men, four mature women, we all knew. Everybody did it, everyone knew that everybody else did it. When someone was missing for a couple of minutes, we all knew that he or she was somewhere back there pooping. It had nothing to do with the fear of nudity. We could easily swim naked together.
I guess the main reason was our common sense of lacking a proper (not childish or rude) language to speak about these matters. It was not always possible to keep track of everyone, especially in the morning when not everyone was awake. Then the risk of surprises was high. Yes, we occasionally spotted one another. The custom then, for everyone, was pretending not to see. But I know, we saw each others. Often, really, squatting, with bare bums, trying to act as if it had not happened.
This "culture" just developed, without any explicit rationale behind it. We are soon going to meet for some drink and food to sum up our vacation experiences. I guess that we all have had some reflections on this issue, and I have decided (to try) to take up some talk about this!
Isn't this quite common? We all do, but we abstain from talking about it. And you don't walk over to some friend and say: Hey, saw you shitting back there. Was it good?
DeleteJust now doing a biking trip in Portugal. We often have no access to toilets along the route. Everybody for sure pees in the bushes. Some also poop. However , nobody talks about it.
DeleteYes, that's what we have to do, also when you're on a camping trip. Few of us like to talk about it. Even if you are not the least bit curious, for example an early morning when you are on a camping trip in the mountains, it is only so visible to everyone. There is no other option but to go behind a fairly large rock or down a slope and pull your pants down and squat down. Everyone knows, everyone sees and everyone understands that this is how it has to be done.
Delete